Vintage + Contemporary = Soul

by skushino on Ever Evolving

Description

I play a little piano and used to play alto sax and clarinet. I have season tickets to the symphony and patronize our local jazz and blues scene. I'm familiar with live music. In a past life I was a radio engineer. These experiences gave me an appreciation of good, emotionally-charged music reproduction as well as the enabling technology. My music interests run from classical to jazz, blues, and other stuff (rock, folk, funk, electronica, etc). Favorites include Michelangeli, Argerich, Furtwangler, Montoya, Piazzolla, Melvin Taylor, Junior Wells, Lionel Hampton, Jimmy Smith, Brubeck, Jeff Beck, Stanley Turrentine, Santana, the Doors, Zeppelin, Groove Armada, etc., depending on mood.

The evolution of this system centered around the loudspeakers. Prior to this setup, I owned and heard a variety of speakers: Apogee ribbons, Vandersteen, Nola, Wilsons, Devore, Verity, Quad, Focal, Sonus Faber, vintage and contemporary Tannoys, Avantgarde, Lowther, and many more. After experiencing a properly implemented multi-way horn system there was no turning back. My epiphany was hearing Josh's Electronluv system at VSAC, later followed by Romy's Macondo. My current speakers were Edgarhorns acquired in 2005, and have evolved with the addition of a new upper-bass channel and a pair of Danley tapped horns for ULF. Naturally, the crossover was updated with the addition of the new channels. Still to accomplish is fabricating 1/4 wavelength mid-bass horns to replace the Edgar 80hz horn.

HF

> 8850hz Fostex T900A

MF

1000 - 8850hz JBL 2441 in 350hz tractrix horn

Upper Bass / Low Mids

280 - 1000hz Faital M5N12-80 5" driver in 142hz tractrix horn built by John Hasquin

Mid Bass

80 - 300hz EVM-15L woofers in Edgar 80hz straight horns

Sub Bass

At this level, the complexity increases and my focus is properly integrating the speakers, drivers, amplifiers and crossovers. My efforts are built on the experience and support of horn pioneers who were generous in sharing their knowledge with me (Dr. Bruce Edgar, John Hasquin, Steve Schell and Rich Drysdale, Romy, Jeffrey Jackson, and others).

Listening room is 16' x 18'. Like all systems, this one has weaknesses. It's large, tweeky, geeky, interferes with non-audio pursuits, and there's less social interaction. I have met new friends through audio. Thanks to all who shared in this journey!
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Components Toggle details

    • 構えの大きい主要主題 (A Majestic Theme) Loudspeakers
    English: A Majestic Theme 5-way speaker system ~ 107dB sensitivity First-order crossovers Alnico magnets Time aligned HF: Fostex T900A horn tweeter MF: JBL 2441 (NOS) compression driver, 350Hz tractrix Edgarhorn Lower MF: 5" Faital M5N12-80 in 142 Hz round Tractrix horn (courtesy John Hasquin) Mid-Bass: using Edgar 80hz straight horns and EV-15 woofers Sub Bass: Danley Sound Labs TH-SPUD
    • Danley Sound Labs TH-SPUD subs (pair)
    Stereo pair with dual 8" drivers per tapped horn
    • Lamm Industries ML-2 (> 75hz)
    Driving mains
    • Bryston 4B-ST (< 80hz)
    Dedicated power for Danley ULF channels
    • Lamm Industries L-1
    Sublime-sounding tube-eating linestage
    • Velodyne SMS-1 ULF processor
    Sub bass processor
    • Micro Seiki SX-8000 Turntable
    200 lb. turntable with 45 lb air-suspended platter and high speed inertia flywheel.
    • SME 3012R / Ortofon SPU-85 Limited (Stereo)
    SME 12" arm and limited edition SPU for stereo.
    • Micro Seiki MAX-282 / Ortofon SPU Mono (Mono)
    For mono LP playback
    • EAR 834PT (Thorsten-ized) Phono Stage
    Circuit mods and parts selection courtesy Thorsten Loesch
    • Sony SCD-1
    SACD player used as transport
    • Museatex BiDat Plus DAC (modified)
    Ed Meitner design DAC, with upgrades by John Wright.
    • Purist Audio Design Dominus (ICs and speaker wires)
    Pain to use due to ridiculous size, weight, and stiffness. Wonderful colorful tone and extended sound, effortless dynamics, with weight and texture. Anti-hifi.
    • PurePower APS PurePower 2000+
    In line power regenerator
    • Solidsteel H-5
    Welded steel equipment stand

Comments 153

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Nice system Scott!
What are you finally doing for bass under the 142 hz Horn?

Multiamping is complicated due to the phase response of different apmlifiers, at different frequency ranges! Time alignement helps.

sadurniacoustics

Owner
System edited: Added PurePower 2000+

skushino

Owner
@ Fliz, I prefer the Seismic for sound quality, and the Danley for livability. I could never afford to fit two Seismics in my room. On the other hand, a pair of Danleys isn't too difficult. The Seismic sounds surprisingly good, considering the design tradeoffs made by Bruce.

skushino

Owner
@ Alanbrain - I'm not familiar with Danley's SM60, although I admire Tom's innovative contributions to our hobby. I suggest you inform your decision between the Danley and Bruce's horns by considering how you much you want to be involved with your system. Do you consider yourself an active hifi person / hobbyist? If yes, than the Edgarhorns are a good platform to lean about horns, and move beyond doing audio as a gear-acquisition hobby. I've learned much about loudspeakers, and audio in general by my experience with Bruce's horns. With Edgarhorns, you have endless flexibility with drivers, crossover components and design, placement, etc. On the other hand, if you view yourself as a passive listener, and assuming Tom's horns are turnkey (conjecture on my part), you might find his product more similar to commercial loudspeakers, requiring less attention and tweaking to extract their potential.

skushino

Owner
@Glaesemann - the pic is dated. My Edgar 80hz shells are outboard of the 142 hz horns, and Danley subs outboard of the Edgar shells.

More importantly, the integration is not straightforward. My Edgar upper bass horns are only playing in a narrow bandwidth from 80 -> 250 hz. Complicating matters, the Edgar upper bass horn is horn loaded down to 100 hz, then works as a direct radiator where it drops quickly to 80 hz. The Edgar horns are LP'd at 250hz. This isn't ideal, and the next step is to replace the Edgar horns with quarter space full sized horns.

skushino

Hi Skushino,

I have been reading about your audio journey and its very interesting, thanks for sharing.

I would like to ask you about the sound of your original "Edgar Horns" set up. Im about to change speakers and Im trying to decide between buying a full edgar horn set up (with Fane Tweeters and the edgar subwoofer) and a pair of Danley SM60Fs with subwoofers.

I Know you already have this evolving system for some years, so you really know how does it sound and behaves.

My room is 13 x 17 feet, a little smaller than yours, from what you say. I use the speakers in the 13 ft wall. But half of the 17 length of the room have almost 17 feet, thats the half that is near the speaker wall. So, I wanted to know if you can comment about the sound of your speakers regarding the room, is there space for proper driver integration? also how do they sound with more modern, dynamic, material?

Any insight will be welcome.

Thanks again for sharing.

Alan

alanbrain

Awesome setup...

How do the TH-Spuds compare to the Seismic?

fliz

Hi Scott, do you have a picture showing your current set-up? I'm curious how you integrated the Edgarhorn 80Hz boxes with John's 142hz tractrix horns.

- Tim

glaesemann

Sweet system Scott.

Did you ever research BL(Back Loaded) Horn Speakers? And your DIY

Spin the Yellowjackets and Four80East for Jazz.

And for Electronica Tosca or dZihan & Kamien has lots of different flavors.

lapierre

Scott, Thanks. I found the original review translation and thought it particular - not something one comes across every day! But as always they look cool and I love your system.

t_bone

Owner
Hi T_bone: Since it would be a far stretch describing the speakers as Edgarhorns after several significant updates, and I hate referring to them as 'diy', I was searching for a new name. I'm Japanese / American, and wanted something that captured my passion for good sound. 'A Majestic Theme' is a description a Japanese hifi enthusiast used to describe the sound of another system. I liked it, and it stuck.

skushino

Wondering why you used the Japanese name you did for the speakers...

t_bone

Owner
System edited: Auditioning multi-amp setup with the addition of my Marantz 8B 35s pp amp to drive the upper bass channels. Crossovers are unchanged, still passive high level first order. Time now for listening, measuring, and (hopefully) enjoying the new configuration

skushino

Owner
Thanks, Jeff. I recently added a pair of Danley tapped horn subs to replace the Edgar Seismic. I was very happy with Bruce's sub, but wanted a pair of ULF sources, and simply couldn't find room for another refrigerator-sized cabinet.

skushino

Looking good Scott...what are you doing for bass?

jeff1225

Owner
System edited: Installing 4 dedicated circuits. Work will be completed later this week. The room was wired with a single circuit prior, powering everything including dimmer-switched lights and high-consumption heaters.

skushino

Owner
System edited: Updated equipment list

skushino

Owner
System edited: Sold Edgar's horn-loaded Seismic subwoofer last week. There were no major shortcomings about this sub and I miss the contribution it made to my sound. My sole issue was the refrigerator-like scale and size of the box. It was a tight fit using one. A stereo pair would take too much space in my 16' x 18' room. What will replace the Seismic? I'm having midbass horns and sealed 18" subs fabricated for each channel. And this is the thing with horns - they are large compared to other speakers, and shortcuts lead to disappointment.

skushino

Owner
Received today my 18" Aurasound 1808 sub woofer driver. This is the same massive driver Wilson used in the XS and WOW subwoofers. It has a 4" underhung voice coil, 2" travel, sensitivity of 98dB, and a paper cone. I have an idea for a new sub bass enclosure for coverage of infrabass and the lowest audible octave, from < 20hz to 40hz.

Now, I need to find a matching 1808 for stereo.

skushino

Owner
System edited: Today I replaced the problematic pair of horrible 6c33c 7 pin sockets with real Johnson sockets on one of my ML2s. There were clear signs of damage caused by arcing (burns, brittle and dull wire) and there was zero spring tension in the pin clamps resulting in little to no contact on the pins. I believe these were the cause of burning through a couple V2s and wildly swinging plate voltage readings. This is shameful on a $30k retail amp!

skushino

Owner
System edited: I found some new (old) drivers for the horns. There's a pair of Altec 515-16G 16" woofers that would be used for a new mid-bass horn. And I found an Aura 1808 18" driver for a new sub-bass channel. This is the massive driver used in the original Wilson XS subwoofer. It will be nice when I find another, for a stereo pair.

skushino

Owner
System edited: Slowly and patiently working with new speakers, listening and observing. Integrated Fostex tweeters yesterday, connecting to the system with a single 1uf cap. First impression is positive.

skushino

Beautiful speakers. Are those horns expensive to have made? I bet they are. They look great. I would love to have a pair in my living room!

streetdaddy

Owner
System edited: Added pics of new upper bass / lower mid horns. They replaced the Edgar 80 hz horns. These 142 hz Tractrix horns were fabricated by John Hasquin on a giant lathe and weigh a couple hundred pounds each. They are 31" x 34" x 4" (mouth x length x throat) and I'm using a 5" Faital M5N12-80 driver. These are a new addition to the system and all crossover and integration details are still under evaluation and yet to be finalized.

skushino

hi Scott,

SP-10 Mk2 is a great choice. does it have a custom plinth or is it stock?

are you ready to venture out yet?.....ski season is over after all....

mikelavigne

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