Till death do us part

by rottenclam on Done For Now

Description

After 11+ years in this hobby (6 of which were fun, while the other 5 were completely obsessive)I have finally settled down. It has taken me 8 integrated amps, 8 amps, 4 pre-amps, 6 CD players, 3 analog rigs, and 8 pairs of speakers to settle on what I have now.

Am I happy? Yes.

I think everybody in this hobby should be a music lover first and a gear fanatic second. I think that is mostly the case, but I've run into a few exceptions and it still baffles me whenever I encounter it. My goal now is to listen to the music first, and the system second.

In order to hear the music though I require that a system have little to no noise. That is my first requirement. I had a bad experience with Joule Electra OTL gear being noisy (a problem that never was resolved by the manufacturer) and it has forever soured me on any sort of noise in a system.

The second thing that a system must do for me is be accurate in how the controls work. I am a stickler for volume controls being transparent and attenuating the signal evenly in both channels across the volume spectrum. I had a high end Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista integrated amp sour me on the proliferation of inferior volume pots. It had a slight channel imbalance at low volumes, but the deviation was within the manufacturer's "spec", so they would not fix it.

Kudos to Ayre, Tom Evans, and other manufacturers that do not act like cheapskates when it comes to volume controls. Companies like yours will always have my business (when I buy solid-state gear).

The next thing I like to have is coherant sounding speakers from top to bottom. I choose electrostats and planars over dynamic drivers because even though I love the kick and presence of dynamic drivers, planars and electrostats sound more "real" to me. If I listen long and hard enough to a dynamic driver speaker (especially to speakers that are not monitors), I start to easily pick up on the integration points or defeciencies in the drivers themselves. However, to be fair, I love monitor speakers. Its just that my room is a bit too big for them.

Finally, my source has to play with rhythm and pace above all else. I hate CD players that have technical issues (or sound too clinical, veiled, or mechanical). As far as analog rigs go, after switching to the Garrard, I am in no hurry to go back to a belt-driven turntable.

I have not owned enough cartridges to comment on what my requirements are yet. I suppose the first requirement be that they match well with my phono-preamp, so I'll just leave it at that.

So thats about it.....oh wait, what about the music? I listen mainly to rock (classic rock, metal, glam, punk, new wave, etc) but I also listen to folk, jazz, country, bluegrass, and blues too. My new love is classical and I have been listening to it for the last few years, but I am still a n00b. There is so much to learn in that genre.

Happy listening and if you have comments about my system, I would love to hear them.
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Components Toggle details

    • Garrard 301 (w/ Dobbins plinth)
    The single best source component I have ever owned. Devilishly clever British engineering from the old days, mated with a plinth from one of the best.
    • Tri-Planar Mk. VII (Ultimate II)
    You just gotta love how adjustable this thing is and how it was invented by a guy from the US Naval Measurements Division (RIP Herb Papier). After 7 years of building to Herb's sanctioned specs, this is Tri Mai's latest version, incorporating his own ideas. Incidentally, this arm in particular has also been cryo'd.
    • Dynaco ST-70
    This is in my top 3 best amps for the original Quad ESL (Quad 57's). It is also the cheapest. I've bought, sold, and re-bought an ST-70 a few times. They're like that loyal old dog that wont leave you alone. You just gotta love 'em. :)
    • Quad ESL
    The best speaker ever designed? Yes, I think so. Are they a speaker for all things? No. However, they do rock and they are perfect for my room.
    • EAR 834P
    I love this phono pre-amp. There are probably better ones out there, but this one is mine, and we treat each other quite nicely. I even had its power knob chromed (I dont think there is another one like it).
    • Lyra Helikon SL
    Lower output version of this classic cartridge. Designed as a regular Helikon with a single layer (SL) of windings. The single layer winding spec means lower internal impedance and lower output.
    • Naim NAC A5
    This is the latest iterations of the long-standing NACA series of Naim speaker cable. On Naim's website they call it 'NAC A5'. Most people just call it either NACA5 or NACA 5. The best speaker cable for the money, IMHO.

Comments 45

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Owner
Oh, and I have to admit that I did something very risky that could have cost me dearly.

I set the EAR 834 to mm and ran the output of the phono stage directly into the input of the Dynaco ST-70 with no volume control or mute switch. My Zu-modified Denon DL-103r has an output of .32 mV so I thought it might be worth the risk.

It was not enough gain, but it sure did sound nice.

I then lifted the cueing lever on my Tri-Planar arm and set the EAR 834p to mc to try the same experiment. Well, I instantly heard enough hum coming from speakers to realize that I should not even drop the stylus on the record. There was way too much gain.

Yes, I realize this is the "Done For Now" section of virtual systems, but all of my moves are pretty much tweaks now. The EAR 861 amp was the heart of the system for 5 years, so in Audiophile sickness terms, swapping out an amp after 5 years is "done for now". :)

In the future, I'm going to get a cartridge that only outputs .1 mV or .2 mV and then try my bold (crazy?) experiment one more time.

rottenclam

Owner
***UPDATE***

I have sold the EAR 861 to a very lucky buyer. I am now running a Dynaco ST-70 with EVS Ultimate Attenuators to control volume.

Normally, I would make a real update; changing out the pictures, etc - but presently, Audiogon's upgraded system is garbage...

(no surprise there - MESSAGE TO AUDIOGON - with how much you're making off of this site, you should not sunset functionality that your customers really enjoy. You keep tacking on fees, and adding workflows to yield more profits...which is healthy, because it is America after all. But you should be a bit more considerate to your customers)

...Anyway, this change in amps has resulted in a fatter / more-bloated sound. A characteristic of the EL-34 tube, but oh well, if I want to fall into a romantic system, this is the one.

rottenclam

Owner
Great question. Those are Symposium blocks. I dont even know what they're technically called. Symposium does not list them on their webpage anymore.

In 2006 (or was it 2007) I bought a couple of Symposium stands on the used market. The seller threw in a few of the blocks. I have since sold the stands, but I kept the blocks.

From time to time I will put them under a component (for isolation), or I will put them on top of a component to dull any ringing / resonance.

rottenclam

Hello, Nice system!! I was curious as to what are the grey blocks on top the EAR 834P?

benzo800

Owner
Imdoc, you sound like a kindred spirit. A 33 pre-amp though? Hmmmm, I never thought about actually buying one before. Looking at them now, they do seem like quite a bargain (I wonder if they actually sound good???). I'm one of those heretics that is still hanging out in the get-rid-of-your-pre-amp camp. Heheh.

Funny that you mention the physical setup of the system.

Because I live in San Francisco (where space is at a premium), all of my apartments have forced me have speakers that did not overload the room with their bass (think monitors, 2-way speakers, smaller horns, and Quads).

When I was first getting into the hobby, I would read Sam Tellig's articles in Stereophile. He would say great things about Quads, and in particular, he would say wonderful things about listening to them in he nearfield, as well as how they sounded just as great at very low listening levels.

Those traits sounded like superb criteria to me. So when I first got a pair of Quads, I really took advantage of how you can sit in the nearfield, and not sacrifice the kinds of things that you have to give up when you sit in the nearfield with dynamic driver speakers.

Dont get me wrong; I love true 3-way speakers (some of my favorites have been Sonus Faber Amatis and the bigger Rockports), but they would always be too big for where I lived. Furthermore, from a cost vs. value perspective, I dont feel that the price is worth it. If somebody put a gun to my head and said that I needed to own dynamic driver speakers that went down to 30hz (or lower), I'd go back to some older JBLs or Altecs. Those speakers just seem to 'breathe' music a bit easier than the other big 3-ways that come out nowadays.

rottenclam

As I remember, your physical setup is exactly what used to appear in the QUAD ads back in the 60-70's.

Speakers were positioned on the floor, up relatively close.

Of course the trusty 303 preamp was at the listening chair to adjust "tilt", "bass boost", and likely "rumble" etc.

Some things never change. And possibly never should.

imdoc

Owner
IslandManDan, how is your turntable project coming along?

In regards to this system (an update!), after careful consideration, I've decided to put my EAR 861 back on the market again. I put it out there for a while last year, but nobody was willing to purchase it at my asking price. Recently, I've decided to lower my asking price a bit and re-list it. These things are rarer than hens-teeth on the used market (especially a 120v version), but the market for them is very small, so I dont think it will sell too fast.

Push-pull wise, I still believe the EAR 861 is the best amp for Quad ESLs (and I'll probably regret selling it, when and if it sells). However, I'm looking to hook-up a Futterman OTL as my main amp (given that I'm using Quad ESLs). The net of it is that I can sell my EAR 861 for $4000+ and pick up a Futterman OTL around $2000...so yeah, this move is predicated upon 'ol Rottenclam having some extra dollars for some non-audiophile projects.

Until I end up with my Futterman OTL, I'll use a Marantz 8b or a Dynaco ST-70 on my Quads (the EAR 861 is, of course, better on the Quads, but whatever; I need the money), and I love those other amps anyway.

I mean, if you dont like an ST-70 or a Marantz 8b...you're probably a friggin' communist.

rottenclam

I couldn't agree more with your statement above. That feeling led me back to vintage Tannoys, and an old VAC PA 35.35 amp that works wonder with them. I've sent this amp to Kevin at VAC for upgrades, it's bound to stay with me for the duration.

Best regards, and Happy New Year,
Dan

islandmandan

Owner
@R_F_Sayles...

Being a lost cause never felt so good. :)

For years I read people in Audiophile forums (and in the letters section of audiophile magazines) declare that they "were letting their magazine subscription lapse". I didnt get it. I thought it was akin to a declaration that they were going to stick their head in the sand.

Boy, was I ever wrong. I realized that the magazines (including some of the web magazines, ala 6 Moons, etc) were doing a great service by keeping everybody informed, but that I was succumbing to an aspect of the magazines that was not helpful for me as a hobbyist; namely, that I kept chasing these new products coming out.

Perhaps it was more a personal transformation, but by leaning into the primal feelings I get when I hear music, I was getting more in touch with what I want to hear in a music reproduction system. This, for me, translated into tubes and vinyl.

Once I discovered what I truly "liked", now I could determine what components were going to offer me the most amount of value for my hard-earned dollar. That led me to exploring the older amplifiers (Dynaco ST-70, Marantz 8b, etc) and the older speakers (JBLs, Quads, etc). Which, in turn, led me to exploring the older turntables, the older wires, etc.

It sounds like a cliche, but it is so true that a carefully assembled $10k system will easily trump many other higher priced systems out there. The very sad (and very pathetic) fact is that I had to buy / own a few of the higher priced systems out there in order to truly 'learn' that cliche.

I put no men on pedestals, but Art Dudley and his band of audio pranksters in Listener seem to understand what I've described above, and so that is why I hang my hat on their varied approaches to this hobby.

My ongoing tweaks to the system you see above mainly consist of buying new records. :)

rottenclam

Hello RC (I didn't want to call you Rotten), What I really wanted in a tonearm was either a Grahm Phantom or the Tri-Planer, but they are beyond my reach. I've always admired the design of the Dyna arms, and they are much more affordable bought used, other than the current model.

Table is coming along, waiting on parts, but disassembly is complete, looking for a place for powder coat in my area. Have a Happy New Year!

Regards,
Dan

islandmandan

Owner
Thanks, Dan. I'm sure your 401 will be a gem. Interesting that you have the Dynavector arm. I actually debated on whether to use that arm or the Tri-Planar. I ended up getting a nice deal on the Tri-Planar, so I opted for that arm. Still, I've always been curious about the Dynavector.

I went from a Naim ARO (which is about as simple as it gets, as far as arms go...actually scratch that...the Well-Tempered arms are about as simple as they get) to the Tri-Planar. I wanted something that would 'lock-in', and yet be very adjustable (the Dynavector strikes me as an arm that is also like that).

Happy Listening!

rottenclam

Lovely system, and I especially love your Garrard 301 with Dobbins plinth and Tri-Planer arm. I am expecting my Garrard 401 to be delivered today, I'm making a project of it, with Dynavector DV 501 arm, XX2 MKII, and custom plinth.

I wanted a 301, but the price for them became too dear. Congratulations on your fine system.

Best regards, enjoy,
Dan

islandmandan


There is no hope for you brother!

You are a lost case...

It would obviously be a waste of someones time (and yours) trying to convince
you in audiophile terms of what you are missing!

It also appears obvious IMHO by your choices in equipment and insight from
past audiophile transgressions and your love of Listener magazine and that
blasphemous rhetoric they spew of doing this for the love of life and music
and of fuzzy bunnies and such, your mad.

Stay mad!

Now to be perfectly serious for a moment, dude, read your ad selling the
magazines and got such a kick out of your completely realistic and light hearted
attitude that I thought I would see if you had your gear listed and shazam. So
just wanted to say HEY!

Incidentally, I have the full set of Listener and reread them often, to stay sane
and also enjoy the "Listening" columns Art currently writes, he's
great fun. What a rarity!

Nice gear, it makes sense together. I'm sure you're having a blast...
me too!!!

Happy Listening!

r_f_sayles

Owner
Wow. No paragraph breaks in that post above? That looks pretty terrible. When I was typing it, there were definitely paragraph breaks. -1 to Audiogon for a sub-par editor in their software.

Anyway....

I wanted to add a few more notes / changes that I'd like to share:

a. I used JBL L300 speakers for about a year while my Quad ESLs were being refurbished. I do prefer the Quads, and so I sold the JBLs, but the L300 speakers were my favorite speakers (that use a dynamic driver) that I've ever owned.

b. My interconnect journey is still in flux. My favorite interconnects of all time have been Tom Evans Groove Tube, but I've also liked some of the Cardas ones too. I limp along using Kimber PBJ (which is adequate for the money). I used some higher-end interconnects before (Tara Labs, Audioquest, etc), and never felt like I was getting the kind of value for what I paid. In the coming years I'd like to experiment with using some TG interconnects or maybe some DNM interconnects.

c. I pulled the EVS Ultimate Attenuators out of my system after I had the stock volume pots on the EAR 861 replaced with better ones. I believe that every audiophile should own a pair of EVS Ultimate Attenuators in order to judge what their pre-amp is doing to their system. My EAR 861 volume pots were replaced with another set of volume pots (rather than replacing them with stepped attenuators), but these new pots were of a much higher quality than the stock ones that EAR inserts into their product on the production line. The replacement work (and pot selection) was done by Scott Franklin (of MFA and Wavestream Kinetics fame) in San Jose.

rottenclam

Owner
System edited: I made some significant changes to this system in the last 3 years. The first was that I had the Quad ESLs refurbished by Wayne Piquet. The second is that I switched out the my faithful Dynavector cartridge for the Zu Denon DL-103. The 3rd change was using the best high-value / low-cost cables that I could find (Naim NACA 5 speaker cable and TG Power Cords). I continue to think that the cable aspect of this hobby is the lamest. Yes, cables do make a difference. No, you should not pay the money that is currently being asked for so many kinds / types of cable. My 'Done for now' classification of this system is actually pretty true. I did try to change it substantially by, once again, experimenting with solid-state gear. I did not update the system with these experiments because I did not feel that my long-changes would stay. To wit; I used a Gryphon Diablo integrated (with a built-in phono stage) for about a year, and found it to be absolutely superb. The phono stage is the best value for money in an integrated I have ever encountered. I've had many high-powered solid-state integrated amps in my system and the Gryphon Diablo was easily the best. It took me over a year on the used market to find one. I may regret selling it, but I needed the money AND my old tube EAR system, which you see today, is better to my ears (particularly on the Quad ESLs). The next experiment was using some of the Nelson Pass First Watt gear (one of the low powered amps and his passive pre-amp). This combination was not as good as the Diablo, nor was it as good as my current EAR tube system, but I still think it was quite good for the money. I would not hesitate to recommend a First Watt system to somebody. My 10+ year journey in hi-fi has cost me many tens of thousands of dollars. If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, my choices would inevitably err towards the "Art Dudley" school of thought / equipment selection.

rottenclam

Rottenclam....I just studied the picture you provided...those are tiny triodes next to the EAR! At low listening volumes, which is my preference, is the bass deficit that the VTL TT's are known for still an issue? How do they compare in the midrange to the EAR 861? Now I really know you have exceptional audiophile chops!

tompoodie

I admire your taste and am following in your footsteps. I currently have Vienna Mozarts/REL Strata III sub/Adcom electronics/Rega Planar 9. I am researching and auditioning my next system. Tentatively it will be Quad 57 (by Wayne P), either Garrard 401 or Technics SP10 in slate, and possibly Atma-sphere amp. Did you ever try some of the less expensive amps for the quads like VTL tiny triodes, Quad 303, Quad II...all of which are reputed to be exceptional matches? I find it fascinating how experienced audiophiles gravitate away from herd mentality as you have.

tompoodie

Lovely system - I too have 57's. They are magic.
Congratulations.

tricka

A fine idler at one end, and ESLs at the other. So very refreshing after looking at the usual $tereogile-approved "high end" systems featured at Agon.

Enjoy!

fretless

What a great system! I think you might enjoy a Zyx cartridge. I have the Airy 3. Fast, tons of detail, great separation.

srwooten

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