I used to have two separate systems, 2 channel for the study and home theater in the downstairs living room. I have now combined the two, as music played in the study was bothering my son who uses an adjacent room. As I result I am trying to merge the two and upgrade so that I can achieve better 2 channel sound quality for music.
As I have commented elsewhere I do l have leftover amplification that I absolutely love...the DartZeel pre and pwr amps. I am going to integrate them into this system. This means
1. Dart Power drives L/R speakers. Whether this means I keep the MX207 or "downgrade" to a suitable 3 channel amp (for movies I am not as sensitive re absolute sound quality) to help finance stuff we shall see. 2. Dart pre: whether to integrate this using home theatre bypass is something I will be investigating..or just sell it and the MX 136 with upgrade in the pre pro is something I think I should look into. Among the pre pros out there, the new Mark Levinson 501 is interesting. Key parameters is financing all the chgs, hopefully reducing number of boxes, but very importantly great 2 channel sound quality. Using the Dart pre via home theatre bypass compared just the MX136 I know will be much better. The question is whether another pre pro will be competitive with this rather complicated set up. One key thing re using the Dart pre would be then I can use the 50ohm DartZeel interconnect with the DartZeel power amps. 3. Once decided on the above two factors, then decide on whether to upgrade speakers to take full advantage of the dart power amp. Possibles are Magico V3, Dynaudio Sapphires, Hansen Knights,...superb speakers which are not gigantic. 4. Possible re-cabling...I suspect the XLOs are holding back things a bit...but cables can't be the huge thick stuff given how my system is set up....perhaps Cyrstal Cable or Nordost...but that comes at the last stage. 5, think about HDMI 1.3 while doing this...necessary or not? 6. Think about upgrading the blu ray player...mine is a bit older in generation: key thing is loading time is sooooo slow! But this cant wait as players proliferate more.
So got work to do, but not finding enough time to actually investigate and implement this thought process!
The V Ray had a far bigger impact than Resonators for sure. It really cleans up things, increases the directness, and reduced glare all at the same time. Micrody.namics also improve. A worthwhile investment
Yes, the Cremona M. Never tried that particular model myself, but did have some exp w Elipsa, Guaneri Homage etc....sonus faber is always smooth and warm with good detail.
If you prefer the warmer sound,...then I think you may end up preferring the avalons (well I don't have much exp with these) than martens (which I do a bit and they are not warm per se). Indeed u might also want to check out sonus faber.
Funk is good...as well as the walking bass line played in various jazz instrumental songs.
This past Saturday listened to the Dali Helicon 400s vs. Amphion Xenon for my small listening room. Both speakers really sounded great. The Xenon has flexibility for optimal performance with great bass and midrange purity. It's a very natural speaker that works great with tubes. The Helicon 400s using the 6.5 drivers really can fillup a room with music. I prefer the Helicon 400s warm sound and tighter bass vs the Xenon. Plus the ribbon tweeter combo with the right components can add 3D depth with better instrument isolation.
Next on my list is the Marten Design Miles II and Avalon Ascendant. I'm trying to significantly improve my midrange and increase my mid bass given my current speakers limitations. I'm not disappointed with my current system just always evaluating other components to see if a change is warranted.
So do I re price-performance though perhaps not as strictly. I just have a dollar # I don;t want go over but below that whatever is the best for me is what I am going for.
Re Martens, afraid not. The dealer did not have Miles 2 in stock at the time. Avalon I am going to try out, definitely, but long ago I tried the Eiodolon Diamonds and while they were certainly of great quality, I thought they did not as well on certain kinds of music I listen to such as funk. Dali Helicon 400s, are great price/performance wise, ...its just hat I can afford something better. Thought it lacked the last mile of liveliness, and timbral accuracy, but were very smooth and surprising good bass. A very good all rounder indeed. Never tried the 800s.
I tend to look at price/performance ratio when looking at some of the upper end components during my listening experience.
Did you listen to the Marten Design Miles II? Is the Bird that much better than the Miles II with the extra driver?
What about Avalon Indra which is in the same price range as Magico V3? Another possibility is Dali Helicon 400 MKII which for the money is really hard to dismiss or Helicon 800 MKII?
Wilson System 8/Wadia CD/Cello Amps I had years ago auditioned Wilson Puppy 7s driven by Spectral came away unimpressed. The sound had a dry quality to it and tonal colors were lacking in brilliance. This was slightly better but still it was if I was viewing a black & white photo and robbing me away of all technicolor music has to offer. Bass however was the most deep and powerful of all speakers audioned so far, including those below. But I am not bass freak. Detail is fine, even perhaps superior, but I could not find the seductive quality I usually like as was the case my previous Kharmas. Steve Coleman's Salt Peanuts is very hyper rendition exhibiting a real playfulness but thru this system, all I could think was "where did the fun factor go?
Magico V3/Audio Rsch CD/amps Holy cow. Now thats the way its supposed to be. Totally inspiring. The technicolor was back but without being flabby, or losing anything in the process. Anderson piano trio: the individual instruments were separated much more clearly so that is was very easy to follow each individually which the Marten Bird did as well but this time there was more of wholeness of trio at the same time, the music's ebb and flow was much more balanced. Handled the synchopation beautifully. Time Ries cover of Wild Horses with Norah Jones on lead vocal was rapture itself, Her voice was very distinct without being too foward, and betterthan either Sapphire (a bit soft?), and Marten (ebb and flow). Soundstge was excellent, only a slight bit below Marten's level. The fun factor returned in Steve Coleman and Doyle Bramhill's Green Light Girl track,...it rocked! Though it did not reach down below as much as the wilson's this overcome by sense of real drive and better instrument separation. Sound, price, size this is clearly the one for me...BUT the lack of color (external box) of its side panels, only being the original beige birchwood, may lead to WAF objections....gotta check with the real boss.
Hansen Prince V2/Gryhon CD, Pass Labs amps Comparatively I cam away with impressions of it being light footed, very articulate, tonal color good but not as great as Kharma or Magico. One thing that was obvious was it was bit more laid back than I used to (something that reviewer fail to point out). With Kharma or Magico, one gets immersed in the music, whereas here I felt I was spectator, that there was some space between myself and soundfield. Lack of bloom? Imaging was uncanny, perhaps the best so far. The dealer said he received them yesterday and they had only about 30 hours on them,so perhaps this reflects a lack of burn in....and thus perhaps I need to revisit. Cymbals shimmer at the stop & go in Steve Coleman's track were superior to V3 and on par with Marten. Rocked yes but without that immersive quality I didn't. Does this mean I like slightly forward sounding speakers/ Perhaps. But while I CAN afford it, the price differential with others is very large, and I very much doubt that I would like these that much more....
So now have Dynaudio Sapphire, Marten Bird, Magico V3 and maybe Hansen's Prince V2 as final candidates. WAF permitting, V3 is it for me but I still have a few more I wish to check out.....
I finally found time to visit a few dealers to audition speakers. Below are my listening impressions.
1) Eben X3: electronics: VTL pre & mono blocks, Bel Canto Universal player The first thing that is noticeable is how little foot print these take up. Due to the narrow baffle, they really melt into the background when viewed from the front. The sound however was not the case. Highly accurate, sound stage is just average, though the dealer had it with excessive toe in. Tried adjusting the angle with some success. Alex Murdoch's "breathe": his voice sounded if it was more close miked than I am used to thinking. Charles Potter's "the source": imaging is very good indeed, the part in the begging when he first comes in following the pino/drums along with the rest of the band is appropriately explosive. Stanley Clarke's "Bad Assess", a funakthon on electric bass & drums duet....wow. I can hear all the lines very clearly, which is not the case with my current Ascendos. Caia's "La Telecabine" ...sound stage is good for a change, but this song should be more spectacular as it builds up. Time for a torture test. Doyl Bramhall 2's Green Light Girll"...rocks but this is not well recorded disc and the eben's make me we know that...at high listening volumes, alomost unlistenable. Overall, this speaker has no real exaggerations, sound stage is average, bass tight but not fast, and does not do the "beauty of tone" thing that my former Kharmas did so well. Pretty good but I will probably endup taking a pass.
Revel Ultima Salon: Lexicon pre & amp, cd player. This was set up more in a home theatre, but listened in two channel. Arild Anderson's "Saturday" a very intersting and synchopated piano trio piece, sounds a bit sluggish. Should be more light of fott...hmm. Tone is warmer than the Ebens but just straight foward really. Wilco's Pott Kettle Black: now that's more like it...voices are great and the song just propels fwd. This speaker likes pop. Chris Potter again: straight foward and neutral indeed but something is missing: Idon't get that exhiliration I seek when listening tonhim. Doyl Bramhill2...better than Eben: again this speaker likes pop and rock. While neutral, more forgiving than Ebens. However again I pass, as the speakers are just butt ugly in my opinion, and while good all around, I find them less than inspiring especially with acoustic jazz.
JM Labs/Focal Diva Utopia: YBA pre, amp and CD player. This one is a non starter. It just sounds dead. Perhaps its the amps, but the amp is rated 200W which should be enough? Perhaps u need a killer amp but then that means I should pass anyway. Neutral yes, but not involving.
Marten Design/Canary pre & pwr, Audia CD player: wow...a big step up,.. This is heads and shouders above the three. Arild Anderson: piano tone is completely natural (is this the 300Bs in th Canary?), sound stage is wide and especially deep, nd bass is taut and fast, capturing the syncopation in this piece very well. Let's try the toruture disc: Doyl Bramhill 2: I expected it sound even more harsh, but while clearly it less you know about the rrecording quality, actually very enjoyable. Its sound live! Probably due to the speed of this speaker which is very fast indeed. Steve Coleman And Five Elements' Salt Peanuts:further highlights as the band does several stop and goes in this song and everything stops on dime with the shimmer of cymbals continuing. Definitely will need to consider as I narrow down my choices. Perhaps the pricer Coltrane too.
Dynaudio Sapphire: Burmester CD player direct into Canary amp: Different from Martens in that note are rounder and overall just bit more fwd in comparison while quite not as fast. Its closer to the Ascendo camp where things are smooth and round. Yet far greater transparency (than the Ascendo's) and easy on the ears. Relaxing. Arvil Anderson piano tone is fine but the bass/drums are not as tight as Marten (but perhaps who is?). However listening to Norah Jones on Tim Ries ode to the Rolling Stones, track Wild Horses,....so gorgeous. Steve Coleman: the center of sound is bit more grounded, but very enjoyable in a different way. Doyl Bramhill2, forgiving and again I get he live feel to it, and it rocks. Lokks great, sounds great, and will never be fatiguing which perhaps Marten Design will. In any case, another final rounder to consider.
So overall, Marten Design's Bird and Dynaudio Sapphire warrant further listening. I will circle back to there after I get to audition a few more speakers: some of which have not arrived where I live in HK:Isophon Arraba, Hansen Prince or Knight, B&W Signature Diamonds, Magico V3, Audiomachina Pure System etc....
I finally got around to moving my emm labs gear to this system. The Esoteric DV 60 player has taken out (not sure what I am going to do wit it, perhaps for the bedroom, perhaps to be sold). Instead, the emmlabs CDSD transport AND the Sooloos music server is connected to the DCC2 which I am using as a DAC, the DCC2 to the McIntosh pre pro which shuts down video automatically when playing 2 channel music.
Listening impressions I prefer the emm labs combo to the DV 60 by more than a country mile. So open, so at east yet brilliant. Sooloos has improved thanks to the DCC2 GREATLY. It has made a world of difference. Yet still, when compared to playing CDs via the emm labs CDSD on the same tracks, curiously the latter is better. There is just a more open, transparent quality that is unmistakable. The Sooloos allows far greater accessibility to one's library and fun to use: with the DCC2, sound quality has improved greatly to the extent I have no qualms...but using the CDSD is yet another level. I will be using both for the obvious circumstances.
Next stop now is to start auditioning speakers. Depending on the outcome, the Darts may be able to join this system....I can always purchase some good but not very expensive amplification for the center and rear speakers which come into play on DVDs etc. I tried multi channel music while interesting for some SACDs, for the most part not important for me at all. As such I personally don't think the whole idea of having at least the brand of all speakers needing to be the same, nor amplification that important for just movies and the like. Amps like Nuforce or Bel Canto can be used efficiently without taking much space I figure, Indeed now that I think about it the center channel speaker: the most important thing is probably dialogue and thus clarity shld be more important than smoothness...down the line may have to re-think the Ascendo C5, nice little bookshelf I am using as a center, which is more smooth than clear. But the search for L/R begins first.
As per my other thread on my 2 channel study room, I will be merging the two to this system for a variety of reasons. First step, bring the emm labs transport and DCC2 to this system....the Sooloos should benefit enormously. The Esoteric DV 60 I am not sure about, while I may also upgrade th Ascendo C7s to something else. Not sure if I will do likewise for the c5 as for 5he 5.1 set up is really just for movies. Blu Ray has won but will wait to upgrade the Pioneer player as what I really want is an one box solution that not only does Blu Ray but also upconverts regular DVDs very well which so far doesn;t seem to exist....I have already swapped the Shunyata Hydra for the updated V Ray which I used for the 2 channel system. The journey continues.
Sooloos is a revelation in terms of ease of use. I thought Sonos was good but this is completely another level. The interactive functionality has me seeking forgotten music all the time, falling in love with it all over again. Clearly its internal DAC is not up to par and I have it connected to the Mcinotsh pre-pro but suspect a dedicated 2 channel DAC would improve things so starting to investigate again...though I do prefer not go for broke so to speak as the rest of the system is high quaility but designed for the cutting edge....but more than enough to enjoy my music library. I stll have my Meitner-DartZeel-Kharma set up in my study which I use for concentrated listening. In fact what I find happens is that while in living room home theatre set up, I will discover something in my Sooloos library which in turn later lead to a longer listening session on the study room set up. At the end of the day its all about enjoying music.
Getting back to the DACs, I would prefer to not go over USD10,000 or thereabouts....Chord DAC64, Accustic Arts, and few others may do the trick so the search is on. Would welcome any suggestions.
Update: all installed with instead of the Play Station 3 got a Pioneer LX 70 Blu Ray player. At some pt may investigate Blu Ray-HD DVD multi format players proliferate. From someone who has the first time went into a projector/100 inch screen, it is shockingly fun to watch movies. 2 channel not at the same level w my dedicated 2 channel but still very enjoyable...a more rounder, forgiving, smooth and warmer perhaps sound but enough transparency and inner detail for enjoyment. The Ascendo's are really good value and makes one wonder what their reference level speakers sound like. Not at Kharma's involvement level, but nevertheless very pleasant with good soundstaging. Less detail, transparency and you are there but still very enjoyable indeed. I am investgating Sooloos (yes I already have Sonus) which matches well into ethos if this multi purpose system.
I am also looking to having a plasma, plus a pull down screen. Reasons are basically 2 fold: living room so light will interfer with projection which do I want for night time DVDs etc and b) significant other wants something easy to use to watch regular TV.
Unfortunately there is only one 60 inch plus full HD (1080p) model in Hong Kong by Panasonic. Sigh.
Thanks Mike as always. I did try the pass thru but then again it was a CD. The dealership did not have any SACD players. Frankly speaking I am amazed there is not enough overall industry push to SACD.
Henry, congrats on your 'new' HT.....and your move to a new home.
i'm no expert on processors, although i would very strongly recommend auditioning the 5.1 analog pass-thru in your 2-channel system before trusting it's naturalness for SACD multi-channel. all the so called analog pass-thru's i have auditioned (admittedly a few years back) sounded like sh*t. if you are looking to really enjoy multi-channel SACD you need to feel good about it.
as i own the JVC RS-1/HD1 i applaud your choice there. it is simply amazing for the money. you will need very good light control and dark walls for optimal preformance.
if you have not checked out 2.35-1 constant height; i might recommend it. it will really make the visual HT experience more involving. there is nothing like a very 'big' and wide screen to suck you in.
check out this forum for details. i use a 115" x 49" dalite 2:35-1 screen in my HT room and love it. if you go with 2:35-1 you will need a video processor to stretch the picture vertically and then a lens to stretch it back horizontally. a bit of hassel and dollars but worth it to me.
Listening Impressions so far (what I have tried) 1. Thiel power pts for all 5 channels: will not do: you can still sense music coming from the ceiling: fine for rears but 2 channel for me.
2. Tried the McIntosh pre pro and multi channel amp with a variety of speakers in 2 channel mode. A McIntosh CD player was used. a. Verity Parsfail: Incredibly accurate, pin point imaging, neutral, ability to delineate instruments was extremely good. However there was something missing to me. Failed to bring out tonal colors as much as I would like, ...did not think it brought out the body of tone/instrument as I wish and lacked the bit of sweetness I prefer. b. Thiel 2.4: Dynamic, transient attack very good, neutral as well but not too bright sounding for me, lacked front to back depth as well. Likely to be fatiguing, I thought. Bass was excellent however. c. Ascendo System C7. Beautiful tone, colors, everything smoother and rounder. Soundstage, lef to right, front to back excellent, especially when bi-wired or bi-amped. Perhaps missing a bit on transient attack but a trade off in favor of my own musical tastes
I also tried the following set up. Halco pre-pro, multichannel power amp, Vivid Audio B1 speakers, A meridien CD player was used as a transport. Impressions: very modern sounding with all the typical audiophile check pts in order, but somehow lacked life...a tad flat. Too neutral? If so, I guess absolute neutrality is not what I loofk for! In any case preferred the McIntosh-Ascendo set up.
So with that in mind, two items from above are pretty much set. 1. Esoteric DV-60: For my sep 2 channel system I have the glorious Meitner front end. But for this system need video as well and it seems the Esoteric player is the best bet for both sound quality and the new version upscales to 1920X1080P. One box universal player of quality sound + the latest in upscaling 2. Thiel Power Points: great for rears as they are unobtrusive, of reasonable quality and more than enough for rears. I do know having the same speaker for all 5 channels is ideal, but that it ideal not realistic for my room. Also for multichannel, its really about movies, Music SACD yes want to experiment but that's about it and not critical: 2 channel peformance for music is more important.
For the pre pros have outruled anything that automatically and always re-digitizes analogue inputs: this is due to SACD. That rules out Meridien and Goldmund.
