I feel the same way about the TW/Zanden mat. The improvement was only positive for sonics with the only potential downside being the extreme care needed when removing LPs off the grippy surface lest they go zinging off my turntable! Seriously I don't get the whole love/hate threat on this mat on the analog forum. It's a no brainer. 
Btw, I see the huge upgrades in your system recently. Must be sounding awesome! Congrats 
-Ed 

latinsamba1 November 29, 2015 04:27

System edited: Just arrived and added the TW-Acustic/Zanden Platter Mat. I don't know if this mat is designed for Raven tables or meant to be generic, but this was by far the biggest bang-for-the-buck tweak I've ever performed. The result is greater purity of sound overall, and I can't hear anything added or taken away to feel that something has been compromised. I have tried other platter mats in the past and never liked them, because there were tradeoffs. This addition came right after my TW amps opened up and started singing. Improvements are across the board, so more natural and organic sound realized from lower noise, better focus and imaging, but at the same time retaining all the air. Improved tone, dynamics, and soundstage all provide a more believable presentation. I'm thinking, greater resolution from extended isolation, but that's a guess. For the way, that I feel a system should sound, this mat exceeded my expectations in that direction. I'm also thinking, that my new amps are allowing me to hear, better than ever before, changes that I make to my system. An absolute winner of a tweak for my system and my ears.

kennythekey July 25, 2015 15:46

We've been cleaning house getting ready to sell, and I hit a point where I could stop and do some listening.

After about 1-1/2 sides listening to The Alternate Blues, Clark Terry and company, the magic happened. I don't know if the amps or the new tubes just kicked in, but there it was. Natural and believable sound just pouring out. All aspects elevated, smooth and open. My goodness.

I will find more time to listen in my chaos, and get back with a better report. I am still using the $6.95 generic power cords, waiting for my Shun Mooks.

kennythekey July 24, 2015 13:59

Hi Dev,

My speakers are dead silent. More so, than any other speaker I've owned. However, I do have mild transformer hum, but this has no effect on the speakers or sound. The hum will be remedied soon by Thomas. No big deal.

I've had little time with my system, because now I'm about to put my home on the market and get a new place. I have been thinking about a new dedicated room, so less time for listening and more time in fantasizing.

I can say, that I've been able to flip on a side or two, now and then, and the sound keeps giving. I'm playing and enjoying less rotated records, outside of my heavy hitters, so that should be an indicator that I'm finding these amps to be joyful. No sit-down serious listening, lately.

From going over your previous questions, I’ve picked out a couple of attributes that seem to be important to you. These are bass and pinpoint imaging. Of course, there are others, but these seemed to be the ones you’re most concerned about. I’ve covered the bass, but we may have different expectations for imaging. What are you looking for in this respect?
Kenny

kennythekey July 17, 2015 14:30

Hey Kenny,

some time has now passed and you have put some hours in - what have you found the differences to be.

Anything that stands out

Are the amps now dead silent

dev July 15, 2015 14:14

Charles,
I am really enjoying the system. And, I hope I did not play down the bass, because it is generous and authentic. Last night, I was amazed just how amazing Stevie Ray Vaughan's Tin Pan Alley sounded top-to-bottom.

I too was concerned somewhat about bass when I entered into this. No more, and Jeff knew this all along.
Kenny

kennythekey June 30, 2015 15:27

Hi Kenny,
Reading your post I can feel the genuine joy you're experiencing and that's beautiful. Reproducing natural sound in your home is the ultimate reward! This type of system will keep you happy and grateful for many years. The TW 300b seems to be a truly top tier amplifier and a fabulous match with the Hornings. Jeff's guidance was obviously on the mark.
Charles,

charles1dad June 30, 2015 04:26

Kenny, thx

dev June 30, 2015 01:28

Thanks, Arthur. I had made the Mac Tuner such a long-term project, that I forgot about my Sansui. I'm the original owner of the tuner, but that old system that included an AU-717 Amp that powered my DCM Time Windows are both long gone. Truly, the most influential and important piece of audio gear (radio) in the twentieth century, soon to rust away. Let’s hope, not to be forgotten.

Dev,
I was able to do some listening this weekend, and wanted to get back to you with some of my observations about the 300B.

I am very pleased with the bass, as it is natural, detailed, and displays fine resolution allowing the notes’ timbre to make the bass instrument sound right. No wooly sound or bloating here, unless that's the recording. These amps are not forgiving, so you get what you put on, in spades.

Eric Clapton > One more car, One more driver > I want a little girl. This cut demonstrates that the amps and Hornings can go low and punch. Is it as potent as my old Thiel CS 3.6 speakers? No, not quite, but the sound is more accurate and true to the instrument.

Rebecca Pidgeon > The raven > Spanish harlem. Again, more potent with my former Thiels/6550 combo, but would bloat, and be slightly distorted. In other words, the bass takes over the recording and can be too much. Not so, with the TW 300B/Horning combo. Just enough bass, so properly balanced and represented. The whole cut sounds fantastic.

Rob Wasserman > Duets > Duet. Rob is plucking some upper octave notes, and I can pinpoint him about fifteen feet behind my left speaker and a little bit to the right. I never heard it like this before. The image, its height (proportional), and the natural sound emanating from that spot formed a believable illusion.

The TW 300B has a relaxed sound across its frequencies, so bass is included. At the same time this is a lively amp, so the “heart” I had mentioned. The bass is not potent with my Aristotles, so not forceful. However, it sounds right and is not over the top, so well balanced. With the Eric Clapton and the Rebecca Pidgeon cuts, my body was generously feeling the bass, so can go deep, sound solid, and be well defined. However, it can feel lean at times when you may expect more. Maybe, this is due to what we’ve heard from some (b)ass-kicking-systems and we want that now to be included. Perhaps, this is just the nature of the 300B and the Aristotles. If potent, powerful, and low end thunder is your thing, this combo will probably come up short for you. However, what it does, I feel it does right, and more so than a lot of thunder I’ve heard.

The Symposium platforms under my Aristotles have improved the bass in my situation. I would say, an overall improvement in all aspects. I will keep the StillPoint Ultra 5’s in the back-burner for a try.

My system right now is producing the best height sense as you put it, that I have experienced. The sense of height for personnel is maintained proportionally within the soundstage. If the engineer did a good job, you get it.

Sharpness of image is excellent in my system as touched upon by my Rob Wasserman comments. Most, of my interconnects and wire are old and long in the tooth. So, I wonder how good this will get when I tweak and upgrade?

As, I thought through the Rob Wasserman cut, the TW can build the illusion of image and perspective within a big and beautiful soundstage. There is also air in-between, so the instruments and personnel share that space as the different sounds interact and blend together. It’s just right and real to me when the recording is well put together. I feel that the TW does its best to give me what I expect from reproduced sound in space and time.

Regarding amplifier noise, it’s handled as I knew it would be. I can tell you that the strong relationship built over time with Thomas, Jeff, and others in this dedicated group, has completely left me worry free about any dealings. Righteous support, is the only way for me to put it.

I’m looking forward to spending much time listening to my TW 300B. Adding preamp gear, interconnects, and wires, will allow me to truly hear the difference still to come.
Kenny

kennythekey June 29, 2015 04:20

Fantastic setup Kenny! Love love love the vintage Mac tuner! How are you finding the TW mono's so far? Terrific looking system, I bet it sounds killer. Congrats!

arthursmuck June 28, 2015 15:35

I've have resolved my noise problem that was two-fold, so
grounding issue, and a bad D3A tube. I have never had a pair of speakers that were this dead silent, so void of that electrical breezy sound, buzz, and hum. Yes, the sound is better. I hope it stays just like it is.

Okay, this weekend I will be listening and try to answer some of Dev's questions.
Kenny

kennythekey June 26, 2015 00:26

Charles,

yes trying to weed through is a challenge - do as much as possible and then look at getting the product in house so I can actually hear in my own system just like I did when I owned my MBL's. I went through allot but in the end found something what was a match made in heaven.

Some basic criteria that I do consider when looking, silent - no hum noises, heat the product transmits off - less the better so I can play in the summer without noticing, ic connections offer both rca and xlr - I have already invested large along with SC's and my intentions are not be replacing at this time.

Mono blocks really are my preference, I have always found to prefer and could always hear the positive differences and my system is already set-up for such so going this route would really be ideal.

dev June 25, 2015 19:05

Dev,
I certainly can understand your dilemma, It's difficult to audition the amplifier candidates that interest you. On the What best forum you were given some very good recommendations, how do you possibly hear them all? No question that the TW and the Horning Sati amplifiers would likely be excellent choices. The Tron Telestar GT also but its extremely expensive, the other 2 seem much better value.
Charles,

charles1dad June 25, 2015 18:17

Kenny / Charles,

If it was easy to hear for myself I would have already, to get to Jeff's place it's a flight out of country involved etc. but doesn't matter anyways because he doesn't have in stock currently as mentioned prior never mind broken-in to listen too or compare. I'm just trying to get some basic details and comparisons, weed through.

Unfortunately where I'm located low watt tube amps just have little if any existence and any found have not been ideal for a 4ohm load.

Transformer hum or noise would most defiantly ruled out a specific amplification, I just wouldn't want it.

Bass is the foundation of music so I wouldn't want some describe as big/fat or woolly, usually with this type there is a loss of dynamics across the entire spectrum.

dev June 25, 2015 00:11

Amen Kenny.

charles1dad June 24, 2015 16:53

Charles,
Jeff put me on the right path after decades of stumbling around. I can't say enough good things about the man. I have no worries at my end about the amps or my system.

The rectifiers I'm using I purchased and are NOS. And, used for the first time in my 300B amps. Maybe, they're making the noise. I'm getting a loaner pair some time soon to try.

Let's face it, this is a part of our hobby. We experiment and move forward. Listening is everything, because it's personal. We may share in common equipment that we prefer, and express that in words, but "my sound" is my own, and what does it for you, is "your sound."

Back to work.
Kenny

kennythekey June 24, 2015 14:50

Good advice Kenny although I'm sure Dev knows this and trusts his ears. For Jeff to recommend the TW amplifier so enthusiastically is noteworthy, he has very good ears based on my hearing his rooms at various shows. There are just numerous very high quality SETs to choose among out there. Jeff used an Electra Fidelity 300b to drive the Cessaro horns at CES 2014 and it was quite exceptional.

Kenny I'm curious to read your impression of the Shun Mook AC cords.
Charles,

charles1dad June 24, 2015 05:00

Dev,
Due to a serious work deadline, my system listening has been temporarily put on hold, as I work at home.

To answer your questions fairly, I want to get rid of the hum, and I will. And, I still have to get my AC Cords. When everything settles down and is back in order, I will spend quality time with my gear and be able to provide my observations.

Go listen and then buy. That would always be my best advice.
Kenny

kennythekey June 24, 2015 02:43

Hi Kenny,

bass - are you finding it's controlled and realistic sounding with detail hearing the notes timbre, able to go down and hold a bass note or is it fat and woolly.

When I'm initially doing comparison I utilize various pces to assist in evaluation - stand up bass - piano - drum tracks and organ and various other instruments along with voices both male and female.

What type of music do you generally listen to- I listen to various just depending on my mood - from male to female vocal performances to rock to jazz - to big band - a little classical etc.

I'm looking for amplification that can handle all type of music and play to involve me - have my feet tapping.

Below are just some pces I use to assist in my evaluations;

-Dire Straits Brothers In Arms - 20th Aniv addition - various songs
-Eric Clapton Unplugged - various
-Musik wie von einem Anderson Sten - tracks 2-11-12-13 and 15, killer bass on 15 track
-Superbass 2 with Pay Brown,John Clayton,Christian McBride



These TW 300B mono's aren't inexpensive so I'm trying to get a feel for their characteristics - I will in the end need to fly and hear for myself but it doesn't appear that Jeff gets to keep anything long enough for a full break-in including speakers so not going to be easy.

I have already found I'm hearing differences due to break-in in my own speakers - bass that is sounding pretty nice has disappeared and then back and with too much - this all effects the entire sonic spectrum.

Currently using the Symposium platforms underneath that Jeff uses, using these brings back memories. I have a wood construction floor and using these under my speakers I find the floor interacts not in a good way which in the end adds negative sonics. With my previous speakers I found my preference while trying numerous products was the StillPoint Ultra 5's underneath - was unbelievable what they did to the entire sonic spectrum - not cheap though but well worth it.

Performance in general, yes but I have found with many speaker designs do portray different height sense and in general instrument size and more , finding them relatively unrealistic. I found this when listing to the TW's mono blocks at the RMAF Show in 2014.

I'm finding so far one weakness with my Horning speakers which is preciseness "sharpness" of image - any ones thought on this.

Amplifier transformer noise - ya that's no fun and I have found can happen over time and not have anything to do with what power you are feeding them. I had a pair of CAT JL3 Sig MK2 tube mono blocks and when I initially received brand new were silent but during break-in process one all the sudden went noisy and then the other one approx. was producing half of the noise. Manufactures response was "I never said my transformers are 100% dead silent"

To me this is a deal breaker because when I'm listening to music and a silent passage comes up this really distracts me taking away the connection to the music - one of my mono's got so bad that I could easily hear it audible some 30 ft away - sounded like a transformer used in those florescent lights. If I put my ear down to it and was faintly audible to me that's closer to being expectable.

I have my Vac Statement 450 mono blocks currently paired up because these are what I used with previous speakers and loved - I know way over kill and not something I would have purchased to marry up wit these speakers. It's a push-pull design and to my ears far from being a ideal match.

I have been trading some emails back and forth with others getting opinion's - one with Ian B a Horning Uk dealer who has been selling Horning speakers for sometime - he conveys saying the speakers need some power to properly control "my model" the 16 woofer drivers. His preferred amplification is a product called AM 833 mono blocks manufactured in China - swears by them - they look like knock offs of Wavac 833 too me but that's a whole other discussion, they do cost substantially less, biggest problem I see with this product in general is the heat they produce - my preference would be as lease as possible.

Lamm ML3's have really peaked my interest but cost soooo much - would have to totally blow me away - on my list for sure though.

dev June 23, 2015 13:02

Dev,
Big is good. So, a large expansive soundstage. I'll try a shot at the performance height question you asked, but this is just what I think. The height of the performance is not fixed by the system. Although, it can be more this way or that way due to the room and the system interacting. Once a fine system and a proper room work well together, a lot then depends on the sound engineer, whether it's live or in a studio. So, how the performance was miked and performers placed, and what was that space like? Do we even know how that was all set up to make a real judgement call?

For example, my previous Thiel 3.6 Speakers always seemed to put the singer's voice at about 7 feet high or so. This drove me crazy, but the way the speakers are designed, and how close they were to me, I certainly couldn't blame my amp, for example.

I always wished that on the album covers, pictures were taken of the recorded performances, studio and live, to allow me to truly evaluate my system and/or the engineer.

The tubes are just about broken in, but I have a problem with DC leakage causing my tranformers to hum a little bit. I talked to Jeff and they should be quiet. So, no noise at the Newport Show. I have a 1920 Farmhouse, and I'm aware of a few open ground circuits and some other nasties. This week, I should be getting an Emotiva CMX-2 that specifically goes after the DC problem. It was inexpensive enough to just try and see.
Kenny

kennythekey June 22, 2015 23:21

Kenny,

When you refer to big - is that a positive or negative.

Look forward to such - what's the expected hours for break-in of these tubes, I have never had.

dev June 21, 2015 01:54

Dev,
The sound is big for my smallish room. But, after my Sophias break-in, I will do a short post about them compared to the Electro Harmonix regarding the soundstage. There seems to be interesting differences and I think the results may be unexpected.
Kenny

kennythekey June 20, 2015 22:19

Dev,
My Frankenstein MK II (2009) has 16 and 8 ohm taps. I believe that the current amplifiers are just a single 6 ohm tap. They could possibly add a 4 ohm tap if requested. It's a very fine SET just as are the others you've listed as contenders. You have excellent choices.
Charles,

charles1dad June 20, 2015 20:19

Kenny, how do you find the height of the performance in general - realistic in size or miniature.

When you are referring to bass quality - how would you describe it.

Charles - I was going to try the Frankenstein mono's but found out they don't have a 4ohm speaker connection which is recommended of my model of speaker - yours or anyone else's thoughts on this.

dev June 20, 2015 18:07

"Heart & Soul."

kennythekey June 20, 2015 02:16