Doug's Audio Den

Owner

Very productive time at AXPONA. A good show this year. I was able to demo a great deal of digital front end gear and from listening received confirmation that I am on the right track with my choices and system building. Working with I2S and it's an impressive link for streaming to DAC.

I am working with another streamer and DAC combo and have set up several more comparisons. This will end up being an extended search for a digital front end. I may end up with a couple of options in terms of components in order to build a variety of systems. Each component maximizes with different equipment sets, so it is not as simple as the One best streamer, DAC, etc. Depending upon the combination of components and cables there can be a couple worthy outcomes.

douglas_schroeder April 14, 2024 21:18

Owner

Now doing comparison of following systems:

Streamer + DAC + Preamp

Streamer + Integrated DAC

Integrated Streamer/DAC/Preamp

One principle regarding systems has held true in these comparisons, the necessity of upper end equipment for upper end results. The use of more affordable separates does not assure superior results versus finer integrated components. Typically, the providence of the component takes precedence over system configuration.

douglas_schroeder January 03, 2024 18:45

Owner

Working on the next phase of the digital front end upgrade. I'm now handling units using different system configurations, including server, DAC, user interface/app, and streaming music services.

While digital music has become quite user-friendly, system building for it has become far more complex than in the old days of CD players/Transports and dedicated DACs. Software has become a major consideration in the process of assessing performance.

douglas_schroeder November 05, 2023 06:11

Owner

Review of the Aurender A20 Reference Analogue Output Network Player has been published at Dagogo.com. This was a great start to the digital source upgrade journey.

douglas_schroeder October 01, 2023 17:56

Owner

It has been five years with the same digital source, so it is time to reassess. I have been doing some work on setting up a new streaming and file playback front end.

Very nice results happening! I am elated, as the system's performance has been raised substantially. I am specifically looking at/reviewing streamer/servers and DACs of various iterations. Together, these are brining a nice advancement to the systems I build. My speakers have never sounded better. I have enjoyed extended listening to the PureAudioProject Trio15 10" Horn Speakers and the Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition Speakers. The hybrid coaxial (PAP) and the quasi-line source (Whisper) technologies both are responding well to the improved digital streamer/DAC combos. This is my fourth round of working with streamer/server devices, and I am pleased that already the results are most gratifying.

I urge those who have a preconception that digital sources largely exist within a narrow range of performance to reconsider. Going cheap on your digital source is killing advancement of your rig. Essentially, if your digital front end is more than a decade old or was less than $1K, you do not have great digital sound. There is SO much more in performance available. Like analogue, it's not cheap, but the result is impressive.

I have built about 10 systems so far in assessment and will continue as more components are assessed. It seems that things are shaping up to be a series of reviews associated with this quest for a new digital front end.

douglas_schroeder August 28, 2023 06:45

Owner

I had a great time working with the enviable Clarisys Minuet Speaker, a gorgeous dipole. The community can read my assessment in the new article just published at Dagogo.com.

douglas_schroeder August 08, 2023 19:35

Owner

My latest experiment was to try the Perlisten D212s Subwoofers with the Grand Aspen Speakers. That necessitated leaving the internal subs silent and sending the line level signal to the Perlisten subs. That is not to be taken as a negative comment on the GA's internal subs, which are excellent. The Perlisten subs are smart subs with room correction and have been tuned to my room.

The results are impressive! I am using all 8 channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra amplifiers (2 units with 4 channels, the maximum number of channels in the Ultra version of the amp is four), so the combined Wattage for the system including the powered subs is conservatively 10,800 Watts. The speakers have an immediacy I have not heard previously from dipoles I have used, and this setup has exceptional resolution and extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum. The dynamics are high efficiency/horn-like, but with the generosity in sound stage similar to a dipole. I love the particular combination of characteristics of this system, and it is one of the most perfect combinations of equipment I have assembled. Listening across a very wide spectrum of musical genres, the only adjustment I make to the system is a +/- .5dB output adjustment of the Perlisten subs. Older recordings which are light on the low end take the extra .5 dB, while the newer recordings get dialed back .5 dB. The subs have so much capacity to pressurize the room that I have to operate them between -6 dB and -6/5 dB.

The system:

Small Green Computer sonicTransporter

Signature Rendu SE with systemOptique

Clarity Cable Supernatural USB

COS Engineering D1 DAC + Pre-Amplifier

Full loom of Iconoclast Cables, using 2 pair XLR IC, 2 pair RCA IC, and 4 pair of speaker cables, and Iconoclast's Belden PCs

Grand Aspen Speakers

Perlisten D212s Subs with Iconoclast's RCA 3m interconnect and Belden's PCs

There is an irony in the hybrid setup incorporating two products which are dissimilar in terms of their development. The Perlisten subs are from industry veterans with extensive capital at their disposal. The Grand Aspen Speakers are the work of one man working in obscurity. I don't recall having such a radical disparity in a system, yet I rank this system as easily in the top 3 I have ever built. I hesitate to name it absolutely the best ever, for fear of inappropriately downgrading other fine equipment that involved other components, cables, etc. and so did not allow for a direct comparison.

douglas_schroeder February 26, 2023 05:59

Owner

Recently had a lovely experience with the PureAudioProject Trio15 10" Coaxial Speaker when I decided to experiment with rolling in upgraded capacitors. When I was using the Horn1 version I bought some Mundorf MCap Supreme EVO Aluminum Oil caps, 33mf +/-2%, 600VDC caps. It made a nice improvement in cleanness and briskness of the speaker.

Once in a while I am game to try a change even when there may be some degree of risk. I believe that most of the risks I take in system building are low, as evidenced by not many issues arising in decades of system building. I am also willing to take the full responsibility of a potential failure. I caution those who would try such things that it is at your own risk, because such things as a capacitor change which is not sanctioned by the speaker company is your issue and voids the warranty. Do at your own risk.

So, I rolled in the oil filled caps for use with the 10" Coaxial and I am quite pleased! The speaker has much higher end sensibilities now. Using them with the Perlisten D212s Subwoofers (also reviewed; love these subs!). Together these are wonderful combination of subs and sizable "monitors". I am using the 10" Coaxial in the Landscape Orientation and I am so happy that I have kept working with that setup over the years. FYI, if anyone is interested in using Perlisten subs with the PAP Trio15 10" Coaxial, I am using a cutoff of 42Hz with the subs and it is seamless with the speakers' 15" woofers. Even though the PAP speakers sport 15" woofers, they do benefit greatly from good subwoofers if serous LF is a goal. Subs are not needed, but if you are trying to play more challenging music with much low end response or attempting to get performance like a much larger speaker, then you'll want subs.

I am driving the speakers with four channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier. Be careful that you do not attempt to bridge/join channels of this amp.

douglas_schroeder November 06, 2022 06:23

Owner

I am driving the speakers with four channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier. Be careful that you do not attempt to bridge/join channels of this amp.

douglas_schroeder November 06, 2022 06:22

Owner

I have successfully found a way to operate the Grand Aspen Speaker with all 8 channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifiers! In order to pull it off I had to use both RCA and XLR outputs of the COS Engineering D1 DAC + Pre-Amplifier, then at the amps split all four outputs with Y cables.

The Grand Aspen has taken on the character of an enormous active speaker with stimulating transients and complete effortless sound. I worked through four variations of placement of the XLR and RCA cables to achieve the perfect mix, as each combination yielded a distinct result.

douglas_schroeder September 24, 2022 16:31

Owner

The Aspen Acoustics Grand Aspen Speakers were delivered yesterday and I am in the process of my aggressive stepping through changes to tune them to optimize them.

These are six way hybrid (active subwoofer integral) speakers with complete adjustability, for the super tweeter, tweeter, midrange ribbon, and 12" bass drivers all have passive attenuators allowing similar configurability to an active speaker, but allowing one's selection of amps and cables.

I am workout out how to drive them with 8 channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifiers. This, finally, has tapped out my reserve of cables for alternative systems if I were to go with all RCA or XLR. However, I believe I could do a mix of them given that the speaker is fully adjustable.

From the first moments of listening it is obvious the Grand Aspen handily outperforms the previous flagship, the renamed Capella (formerly Lagrange L5 MkII).

Further discussion of Scott's goal to recreate the sonic signature of the largest Apogee speakers will be found in the review.

douglas_schroeder September 17, 2022 14:21

Owner

jayant,

God's Peace,

I appreciate the compliment! I am feeling grateful and content that I have achieved a lifetime goal of diversity in systems to experience a great deal of variety in sound.

The Aspen Acoustics Capella (twin tower, Maple pair pictured) will be replaced in a few days by the Grand Aspen, a much more ambitious and prodigious design. I have the same kind of excitement for it as I did when discovering the Eminent Technology LFT-A many years ago.

douglas_schroeder September 01, 2022 20:47

Owner

Further experiences with the Perlisten D212s Subwoofer, which I call a smart sub. It has capacity to change the character of speakers which are not SOTA and elevate their sound quality substantially. I tried the King Tower omni with the D212s this evening and am most pleased with the result. The subwoofers dovetail nicely with the low end of the King Tower such that they now seem as if much more prodigious omni speakers.Having the ability to adjust the low pass filter of the subs with 1dB increments is terrifically helpful. The operation of the mains and subs is more seamless than any subwoofer I have used previously. I was thinking of selling the King Tower omni speakers lately, but not after this result! I'll enjoy them some more - a lot more! Gorgeous omni sound with bottom end akin to the mbl monitor/sub setup at AXPONA 2022, and that with the Perlisten subs loafing, not dialed up. It's a great experience!

There is more upside for two channel to be had when adding such subwoofers than one might think. Reaching down and capturing the frequencies below 20 Hz is valuable in raising the performance of all but the largest speaker systems.

douglas_schroeder July 25, 2022 20:52

Owner

Review of Perlisten S7t Tower Speaker and D212s Subwoofer now published at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder July 13, 2022 21:15

Owner

My review of the Perlisten S7t Tower Speakers and D212s Subwoofers has been submitted and will appear at Dagogo.com soon.

douglas_schroeder June 08, 2022 07:10

Owner

Working on a lovely speaker system review at the moment. It's great how many expressions of sound there are in this hobby! The various technologies employed give a wide assortment of sounds such that there truly is something for everyone.

It's been a long time since I reviewed subwoofers, and I am returning to them once again. There will be some significant changes to the system going forward, I think.

douglas_schroeder May 10, 2022 08:41

Owner

Recently I completed the review of the PureAudioProject Trio15 10" Coaxial (Coax10) version of this open baffle speaker.

In a word, splendid! This is my favorite version of this speaker. PAP did a great job in developing and mating this driver to the 15" woofers. For open baffle fans, strongly recommended you give it a listen!

I am thrilled that it is the highest quality sound I have achieved with the Landscape Orientation. I may post an image of it. I use the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra amp (4 channels, 1,200 total Watts to Left and to Right) to power the Coax10, and added the Legacy XTREME XD Subs for a truly full range, powerful experience.

To learn more about these speakers and my impression of them, see my review at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder April 07, 2022 09:13

Owner

The system has been updated to reflect some reviews I did for Dagogo.com

The Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier has been delicious in every system. Strongly recommended for a wide variety of speakers.

I worked with smaller and larger models of speakers from PureAudioProject and Aspen Acoustics. These are quite different transducers, as can be seen from my descriptions in the reviews.

The Aspen Acoustics Lagrange L1 shown is a pre-production model. The production model will be coming to me for review. I strongly recommend that fans of extreme value/performance in a hybrid, i.e. like Eminent Technology LFT-8B, look into the Aspen Acoustics line. The L5 MkII that I reviewed has extreme performance at its price point, beyond the capabilities of the LFT-8B.

douglas_schroeder October 12, 2021 18:01

Owner

In a bit of a side project, an interest I have nurtured for years, I returned (not exclusively, but in addition) to the Wharfedale Opus 2-M2 Bookshelf Speaker. I had regretted not buying it following my review, so for years I watched to see if a pair would show up. It did eventually, so I snagged them. My goal was to have the luscious 3" dome midrange on hand. It covers from 700Hz to 3kHz, avoiding crossover in the midrange.

For this project I did not wish to expend big money on a PCM or ATC; the Wharfedale would do, as it's a venerable speaker company with a serious disposition. I am quite pleased with the result, and I think the larger, bi-wirable bookshelf will do quite nicely as a representative of the dynamic speaker genre. I am seeing how it mates with the different subs on hand. For starters I have it running with the active bass module of the Aspen Acoustics Lagrange L1 preproduction model (Owner's review of the L1 production model forthcoming at Dagogo.com as the speaker is brought to me and I work with it). In due time I will also pair them with the Legacy Audio XTREME XD Subs, which I have used many times with smaller speakers.

Very pleased with the brisk, crisp sound of the 2-M2 thus far! It's somewhat in your face, a touch bright, but all adjustable with the system. I am enjoying the vividness and resolution of the vocals and primary instruments. Very happy I snagged them to have the long term experience. High end sensibility for a relative pittance. Of course they do not replace the larger transducers I have used, but they are a legit good listen!

douglas_schroeder August 15, 2021 06:11

Owner

Now a couple of reviews have been published that I had been working on over the winter; the Salk Sound SS 9.5 Speaker review, and the incredible Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier review!

The amps are astonishing; I have not built a sub-optimal system with them! Class D has now overtaken the other genres of amps, imo! I discuss this at length in the article.

douglas_schroeder May 20, 2021 16:46

Owner

I also would like to reinforce the previous comment I made about my new article at Dagogo.com, "Audiophile Law: Burn In Test Redux". The Iconoclast cables were in use for that review, and you will see how that extra resolution and accuracy was helpful in the comparisons conducted in regard to the purported efficacy of break in, isolation, warm up, etc.

douglas_schroeder March 27, 2021 05:27

Owner

Very pleased with the experience of working with the Iconoclast by Belden and BAV (Belden Audio/Video) Power cords. I used the top level Iconoclast speaker and IC cables. They have yielded unparalleled performance in many systems. Terrific resolution without stridency.

To add to the wonder of it all, I am about done with a review of a mind-blowing, great sounding class D amplifier! When the extreme precision of both of these products is combined, the sense of a natural sound is immensely gratifying. I have said for many years that it is a categorical mistake to think that higher resolution/definition is a problem. Once again, the systems are taking a big leap upward in detail and refinement, and the sound is more organic sounding than ever.

douglas_schroeder March 27, 2021 05:24

Owner

An important article has been published at the site I review for, Dagogo.com, in which I discuss an extensive comparison of 8 different tweaks/methods, all of which are said to confer meaningful changes to equipment over time that are easily heard.

Individuals serious about setting up better systems need to read it, entitled "Audiophile Law: Burn In Test Redux"

douglas_schroeder March 05, 2021 18:05

Owner

Switched this week from the rebuilt Ohm Walsh Model F back to the King Sound King III electrostatic speakers. I was surprised that the adaptation period to the changed soundstage was longer than normal, about five days. It had been reduced among speakers I have to about 1-2 days. I credit the extension to the unique omni pattern, and my not being accustomed to it in my room.

The King III is kicking butt with four channels of very powerful new class D amp under review. This is the first class D to actually HANDLE the King III.

One thing learned is that panel sound is, like all other speakers, on a spectrum. Particularly glorious about this setup is that both precision and warmth/richness are being improved vastly. VERY fulfilling!

douglas_schroeder January 07, 2021 09:28

Owner

The rebuild of the vintage '70's era Ohm Walsh Model F Speakers is complete. I drove over 1,300mi in two different round trip events totalling over 22 hours of driving in order to get them to a repair facility that could assure a good outcome. They turned out well, and play nicely.

I tried 3 different DACs with widely varying results sonically; the COS DAC1+ Preamplifier, which is the most erudite, but soft on the top with the speakers. The EE Minimax Tube DAC Supreme was more bright, with some additional upper end sparkle, but lacked warmth in the vocals. The Exogal Comet DAC with the Plus Power Supply has hit the sweet spot with these speakers. Combined with class D amp under review, sporting 600wpc, this combo is the best. The speakers are showing their true colors, the openness, but with adequate (though not top end) cleanness. These speakers will never have the incisiveness of newer designs, but have the inimitable mushroom cloud sound stage of an omni. I would not appreciate a tube amp with these speakers, as there is enough indistinctness in the action of the driver that tubes would make them quite muddy sounding. It's tough enough to take the reduction in resolution associated with the full range driver firing into the cabinet stuffed with old foam, much less the bloat that would occur if tubes were used.

douglas_schroeder December 28, 2020 07:45

Owner

I thought watchers might enjoy hearing about a development with the PAP Trio15 Horn1 used in Landscape Orientation, the second image in my virtual system. I experimented with the placement of the subs, this time putting them directly in front of the horns, and it's much better. The sound is more coherent, especially in the bass. There seems to be little deleterious effect on the horn; it does sound a bit different, but not in a negative way.

I have the capacity to raise up the speakers higher on the stands, but have not done so. It's a matter of how much free time I have, and how curious I am about it. That would change the soundstage quite a bit, and would separate the woofers again, so it may be a waste of time. One never knows, however, until it is tried. For now, I consider the movement of the subs to in the middle of the speakers a success! I'm really happy with it.

douglas_schroeder December 14, 2020 07:31

Owner

Attempted rebuild of vintage Ohm Walsh Model F Speakers underway. The cabinet is busted, literally, and is worthless. I glued it and am using some wood filler to make it presentable and close to seamless. The drivers are in for repair, getting new spider and surrounds.

This is a budget fixer upper. Should be fun when it's complete! I will be bypassing the fuse for superior quality. Hopefully before Christmas I will have them together and running.

I think the Ohm speaker is a worthwhile sound to pursue, if people love the omni sound staging. In this instance, I am going budget route; I simply am not choosing to spend higher bucks to get these entirely rebuilt, as the cost of my "restoration" is approx. 1/25 of the latter. I believe I will get a reasonable degree of Ohm omni sound for the money. If I had no other reference speaker, I would probably pursue entire rebuild, as omni speakers are a compelling sound and a valid genre of speaker.

douglas_schroeder December 05, 2020 09:44

Owner

THE VAPOR AUDIO JOULE WHITE SPEAKERS ARE FOR SALE!

douglas_schroeder October 20, 2020 17:56

Owner

If anyone wishes to pursue my discussion of electrical service upgrade for my home to gain info, see the thread "Your One Bullet Point Solution; Electrical Upgrade" in the Tech forum.

Here is my summary:

I consider the service upgrade a success, as I was very pleasantly surprised by the improvement of the sound. Due to shortages of electrical home panels because the factories were closed, I went with the Eaton panel without the internal surge protector. The sub-panel for the music/HT room was eliminated, and this seems to have had no ill affect on the performance, perhaps the opposite. I can't say for sure, as the comparison is not apples to apples. Nevertheless, the overall change is quite positive. The electrician mounted the similar surge protector outside the panel. My fear that a surge protector might introduce some noise was unfounded. A new grounding rod was put outside. The system is quiet, and I detect no noise on the power line, which was a primary concern for a good upgrade. I assume the amps are particularly benefitted by the increased amperage (if I have said it correctly), and I consider the event to be a bonus for the audio hobby.

douglas_schroeder August 16, 2020 05:34

Owner

The final part of the review of Pass Labs XA200.8 Monoblock Amps is now published at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder July 13, 2020 18:59

Owner

Second segment of Pass Labs XA200.8 Mono Amp review now posted.

Doing some discrete opamp rolling this week with the Kinki Studio EX-M1+ Integrated Amp. Pairing it with a new DAC under review. Settled on a combo of the four Sparkos singles and one Burson V6 Vivid discrete opamps. Revisiting the opamps in the integrated amp is most beneficial when partnering it with a new component.

douglas_schroeder July 08, 2020 08:23

Owner

Now the story can be told, at least part 1, of the Pass Labs XA200.8 Mono Block Amplifier. Published at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder June 19, 2020 21:14

Owner

Putting finishing touches on big amp review. I find amps fascinating, as one would think that clean power should not vary so much between designs, but the impact of various amps is pervasive on systems.

For the first time I have found an amp that is perfect in terms of performance with every speaker I have tried. That has never happened before. When I say perfect, I mean there are no discernible weaknesses in performance. It's a stunning achievement to produce an amp that works equally well with all genres of speakers, considering how varied the cabinet/baffles, crossover components, internal wiring, driver types and quality, etc.

I have also achieved the holy grail accomplishment of having an Accuton ceramic driver yield seductively smooth, warm sound - with the incredible precision. I have never heard any accuton driver in any system do that prior. As might be expected, I am most pleased with myself for obtaining that result! :)

douglas_schroeder May 09, 2020 19:43

Owner

I have enjoyed the fun of working with a full range Open Baffle design, the Tri-Art Series B Open 5 Speakers with their special feature, the attenuation for the full range driver. I also reviewed (same article) the Tri-Art Series B Preamplifier and 60Wpc class D Amplifier.

This was a refreshing experience, so out of the ordinary, and a stunning combination of affordability and performance. The big, open baffle speakers bring their unique combination of attributes that compete head to head with other value oriented speakers such as Vandersteen and Magnepan.

I'm very much enjoying the experience of immersing myself in OB and Horn designs! These are two worthwhile pursuits, and admirable technologies with a lot to offer in terms of a choice of speaker. The generous use of a "Gain" switch with multiple positions on the various Tri-Art gear adds to the flexibility of contouring the sound. Enjoy the read! :)

douglas_schroeder March 29, 2020 21:38

Owner

It's awful tough to beat a beautifully streamlined system using just one set of Schroeder Method ICs. This past week I have been working with different configurations, and one of the best is dedicated DAC directly into power amp(s) - NOTE: THIS REQUIRES SOFTWARE ATTENUATION; THIS SHOULD NEVER BE DONE WITHOUT SOME FORM OF ATTENUATION. OTOH, you can go with an integrated DAC and a set of Schroeder Method ICs to the power amp(s). Either way, the result is splendid.

I have the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme, which accepts opamp rolling. It's been a while since I snagged some upgraded opamps. I need to beef up the supply (of opamps) and go back to rolling! I can hardly imagine how good that will be in conjunction with this new method of ICs.

douglas_schroeder August 04, 2019 15:12

Owner

I have conducted an assessment of the EXOGAL Comet DAC and Ion PowerDAC with new upgrade HyperDrive. This is an outstanding, very affordable upgrade and I recommend strongly that owners of the Ion take advantage of the upgrade offered for a ridiculously low price of $250 on into July. I consider this one of the most potent upgrades I have experienced from a manufacturer. The quality of the bass/LF is stunning, but there is no slack anywhere in the performance. With this upgrade I strongly reinforce my recommendation of these components.

Methods to get the ultimate performance include purchase of the PLUS Power Supply for the Comet, and aftermarket umbilical for the same. You may wish to try Clarity Cable, WyWires and Marigo Lab. Aftermarket power cords are extremely important to tune each component(s) power supply. Finally, I use the Schroeder Method of Interconnect Placement from source to Comet.

douglas_schroeder June 08, 2019 20:11

Owner

I have highlighted the Legacy Audio Valor Speaker System with Wavelet DAC/Preamp/Crossover/Bohmer Room Correction that I just finished reviewing for Dagogo.com

The Valor easily surpasses the previous flagship, the V Speaker System, using the same Wavelet component. However, the Valor is a light year leap ahead of V in that it incorporates new technology, the Stereo Unfold Technology, which allows, as I describe in the review, a variable center image and thus the sensation of selectable listening position relative to the performance. This is an exquisite feature and unique in high end speaker systems.

douglas_schroeder April 23, 2019 19:43

Owner

Most recently I have worked with the PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn1 in two different configurations, both involving two sets of Schroeder Method ICs. The first was with a tube preamp under review, and the second was with the TEO Audio Liquid Pre. Both have made fine systems with superior sound to what I could have achieved in the past using single pairs of ICs.

I am quite pleased with how Schroeder Method is developing, and encourage interested parties to look into this "do at your own risk" method. To date there have been no instances of a negative outcome with gear. :)

douglas_schroeder February 23, 2019 08:57

Owner

Thomas, I'm a little shy in terms of visitors, so I'm afraid that will have to keep.

I appreciate your zeal in pursuit of the Schroeder Method of Interconnect Placement. Most people are unwilling to push in order to achieve a vastly superior sound. It is rare for someone to work with many combinations of cables to dial in a rig precisely.

I appreciate the compliment on the system. :)

douglas_schroeder February 10, 2019 21:03

Owner

Schroeder Method is becoming a valuable asset in system building. All components and speakers have been benefited hugely. Even if no one else adopted it, it is for me a must have method.

Cables become even more critical to outcomes, as the characteristics are intensified. Speaker character is honed, and different technology is appreciated more.

douglas_schroeder October 30, 2018 21:06

Owner

Now I have made public something that I have been working on for a while, the Schroeder Method of interconnect placement. It utilizes two pair of interconnects and four RCA splitters, allowing one to double up the four individual interconnects as a pair. The results are astounding! This is a "no brainer" move to substantially better the system sound.

Please consult my article on this; initial assessment is that it is NOT for all applications, including from preamp to amp. Also, if you have any druthers about it, discuss with your component manufacturers to see what their perspective is in regards to it.

This is a "do at your own risk" proposition; I will not accept any responsibility for your creative system risks.

My experience with the Schroeder Method has been stunning, and I am continuing to use this regularly, as it is quite simply superior to a single set of interconnects. So far I have only used RCA cables, but at some point I anticipate trials with XLR.

I am open to contributions from learned individuals in the community such as EEs, designers, etc. I am NOT interested in the ridicule of mockers; such thoughts mean little to me and likely will receive no response.

I should make clear that I have not worked with mixing sets of cables, and no one has recommended doing so. Some are asking about it, but I have not tried and have had a warning that it may cause instability to an amp. So, at this time I am not recommending it.

There are some who read my articles who are going to try the Schroeder Method of interconnect placement, and I suspect that they will have very nice sonic improvements to report. It is a disarmingly simple method, but very powerful in its effect. It is one of the cheapest upgrades for the money I have discovered. It's a paltry sum to do considering the effect can be as profound as changing a component!

douglas_schroeder July 08, 2018 18:48

Owner

David, God's Peace,

You will most definitely want to work with the USB cable and the power cables. Dramatic, very easily heard, differences with both in performance. I never skimp on USB and power cables.

douglas_schroeder June 10, 2018 14:19

Owner

I just completed a review of the wonderful combination of SONORE Signature Rendu SE and Simple Green Computer sonicTransporter AP i7 4T (which stands for Audiophile, i7 core processor, 4 Terabite). The experience has taken quite a bit of time, especially in dealing with movement of files between servers. However, in the long run it is worth it.

The sound quality achievable by upgrades in servers is surprising, but consistent between three experiences. Just as I discovered with all other components, servers have a wide range of performance capabilities. Here, again, is a case where a two chassis solution (like a dedicated preamp and amp vs. integrated amp) has the potential to vastly outperform the other.

This is now the third digital source I have worked with, the former two being the single chassis Salk StreamPlayer 3, and the Wolf Audio Red Wolf Music Server. A dedicated power supply built for maximum performance is the single most obvious benefit conferred upon a server/streamer.

I am extremely happy with the sound of the following combination:

SONORE Signature Rendu SE and Simple Green Computer sonicTransporter AP i7 4T; Clarity Cable Supernatural USB 1m; (Preamp/Mono Amps - under review); Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme - and this is critical - with aftermarket opamps inserted. Currently using Dual Sparkos and single NewClassD opamps. Clarity Cable Natural Speaker Cable (shotgun); PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn 1 Speakers (These are stunning performers regardless of price point); Silnote Audio Anniversary Speaker Cables also in use connected to Legacy Audio XTREME XD Subwoofers.

I did not mention power cords; they are also under review.

This is a highly recommendable system with an extreme amount of resolution and palpable energy, with impressive dynamics. The presentation is forward, with a sense of being close to front row at listening events, with all the intensity that comes with a close up experience. If someone is looking for a laid back, mellow sound, this is NOT the system for them. It is for someone who wants a vivid, powerful experience with a very high degree of "being there" sensation.

The Border Patrol DAC SE is not in use; it was returned to the company following the review. Thus, I have not inserted any aftermarket fuses in this rig, but I am thinking about doing so, for I suspect it would elevate the performance even more. I should check out the DAC and see what fuse is used inside...

I cannot emphasize enough what a boon it is to contouring sound to use aftermarket opamps in the DAC! Wow, this is a powerful contouring/shaping method. If you neglect aftermarket opamps in a DAC which allows rolling you are leaving a LOT of performance on the table. It's like having the option of adding turbo on a performance car's engine.

douglas_schroeder June 10, 2018 05:56

Owner

Doing some nice - well, actually VERY, VERY nice - alternative systems. The last one I did 17 changes and obtained a new reference sound for the Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Speakers.

One might think that after many years and dozens of different systems the speakers would have hit their maximum performance level. Not so; I have blown past many perceived performance ceilings with these speakers.

It is perfectly legitimate to focus on one technology and keep working the rig to the hilt. But, there are many flavors of performance, and continuing to drive down the same road (speaker) with different vehicles (components) only gets one so far in terms of wide variety of experiences.

It is becoming clear that even speaker manufacturers don't know the outside potential of their designs (That is NOT a disparaging comment about Bill Dudleston of Legacy; I'm tentatively concluding that ALL speaker manufacturers are limited in their experience regarding their own work, and that most never hear their designs at their best). They only work up the speakers with a set of components and cannot have a holistic understanding of the potential. Even dealers who make less systems don't know the outside parameters of performance. It's somewhat ignorant, then, to say one has maxed out the speaker's performance, because with consistency in system development a better sound WILL be forthcoming.

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2018 09:54

Owner

In_shore, thanks, I appreciate the kind words.

douglas_schroeder March 03, 2018 19:33

Owner

-in_shore, I had the privilege of working with the Splash, the Reference and now the KRONON. The Splash are not used as much anymore because the KRONON is far superior. When I use the Splash I tend to like the Silver a bit more because it has better detail retrieval. Usually when it comes to cables if two are similar and one has better detail retrieval I usually select it to build the system. There are other ways, including power cords, to massage the tonality, but it's awfully tough to recapture precision if it is lost in the signal path.

As to the TEO Liquid Pre, I found it to be the cleanest among both the active and passive preamps I have used. I purchased it following the review because I know I can build a great rig with any amp as long as the Liquid Pre is in use. The combination of it being a passive pre and the liquid cabling inside is superb. I have a NOS DAC that I'm reviewing currently and I'm curious how the result of it with the Liquid Pre will compare to DACs with volume control. I would not be surprised if holistically the Liquid Pre/NOS DAC and Amp combo is superior.

There are so many directions to go in system construction, but the Liquid Pre is a purist device, and it has performed very satisfactorily with a wide variety of amps.

douglas_schroeder February 18, 2018 06:10

Owner

radiohead99, The Benchmark AHB2 is a better match with the Horn 1 for people who want a studio sound, a closer to the audience feel. It is also more potent in macrodynamics. The J2 is better for persons wishing a more relaxed, less macrodynamic impactful experience, i.e. the bass will not be sledge hammer-like, but somewhat more rounded and less pistonic. The tonality of the two is actually similar. Either can yield a very pleasing system sound.

douglas_schroeder January 20, 2018 19:47

Owner

Shadorne, thank you! You are perhaps the most vocal fan of Benchmark Audio on this website. You know good specs when you see 'em! :) With some gear that can mean a sterile sound, but Benchmark does a nice job avoiding it.

The Benchmark Audio components are superbly designed and a great value. If you are using Roon I suggest you consider exploration of the Headroom feature for enhanced tuning of the system.

douglas_schroeder January 14, 2018 18:35

Owner

My review of the very precise combo of Benchmark Audio DAC3 DX and AHB2 Amplifier is available for your reading pleasure at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder January 13, 2018 09:14

Owner

Update on the PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn 1 Speaker; this hybrid continues to really please me. I have by now gotten about 12 or more discrete systems built with this speaker, and the elevation potential for performance is as steep as any speaker I have used.

I also am back to discrete Opamp rolling with the Eastern Electric Minimax DSD DAC Supreme, and it's extraordinary virtue in swapping opamps continues to impress. I have Burson 5th generation opamps and combined them with some Sparkos Labs - a lovely combo, blending with such finesse with the Horn 1. This is a reminder to all those who have rolled discrete opamps to never conclude that you are "once and done," i.e. that even if you changed the system the old configuration is fine. Revisit the collection of optional opamps (see my articles at Dagogo.com on opamp rolling) and you will be surprised at how the best combinations vary with equipment changes. Speakers have such profound differences in characteristics that it is understandable that differing opamps' characteristics will complement or hinder them.

douglas_schroeder January 12, 2018 18:37

Owner

Long overdue update to the images and comments.

Showing off the recent PureAudioProject Trio15 PAP Horn 1 Speaker in Landscape orientation. This has been the epitome of the search for a "broad based" speaker system especially suitable for live recordings.

I have also begun to show some other speakers and components I reviewed over the years.

My coveted Tice Solo conditioner is still informally for sale at $1M. No takers yet. :)

douglas_schroeder October 28, 2017 11:43

Owner

Oh, wow, xta, I missed your post way back when... sorry! I have enjoyed watching your systems as there is obvious passion behind them.

douglas_schroeder September 19, 2017 15:52

Owner

jayant, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate your taking the time to look.

Regarding cables I have owned many brands and reviewed as many or more. You can read about them in individual reviews at Dagogo.com. Some brands that have worked well for me are Clarity Cables, TEO Audio, Silnote Audio and Snake River Audio.

I strongly suggest you begin with a full set of cables from one manufacturer, then begin to rotate in cables of another brand one/one pair at a time. Otherwise you have no basis for judgment of any particular cable/brand.

douglas_schroeder September 17, 2017 21:17

Owner

A while back here I noted that I just finished a stint with a Landscape system. That speaker system was the Magnepan .7 speakers, using the custom Sound Anchor stands I had made and utilized with the Daedalus Ulysses speakers originally. Though the review does not discuss the Landscape orientation, you can read at Dagogo.com about my time with the .7 speakers. Also, you can be sure that this will not be the end of my Landscape speaker orientation exercises. The results are so satisfactory that it begs for further exploration.

douglas_schroeder August 29, 2017 20:05

Owner

cassroy, I can't give you a direct recommendation on those amps, but I recall being pleased with the PureDAC and PureVox Speakers from BMC. Seeing as how the 352 and M2 are both solid state designs, I glanced at the general specifications and imo it would be difficult to say with certainty that one or the other would be strongly preferable apart from an actual comparison.

The Mac has more power and can use three sets of outputs (2,4,8 Ohm) which is a very important option for contouring the sound with different gear and speakers. The M2 is less powerful, 200wpc vs. the Mac at 350. It looks as though the M2 might have some advantages if used with the BMC DAC1, but this would not be realized in a mixed brand setup.

It would be tough to call the outcome of a comparison. My guess is the dynamics and soundstage of the Mac might be better, but the overall cleanness of the BMC might be better. As regards tonality that could fall to either amp. This is an armchair assessment, so please do not take it as holding equal weight as a review.

douglas_schroeder August 27, 2017 13:57

Owner

Just finished a stint with a Landscape system - not the Daedalus Ulysses. I am very pleased with the development of the Landscape orientation in systems. I have been able to vastly improve the experience, and frankly, now it is as important a rig as any I have set up. The variables in setting up the Landscape system have come together remarkably to maximize the potential. I am very gratified to have put in the time and money into this project. It is one of the most robust outcomes I have attained in 30 years of exploring systems.

While I am not disclosing at this time the speakers being used in more recent Landscape systems, these things will be revealed in time.

douglas_schroeder July 30, 2017 06:30

Owner

RJ, do you mean the Aeris speaker? Yes, the upgrade in the processor to the Wavelaunch is well worthwhile. Typically, with a speaker as good as the Aeris any significant upgrade is worthwhile.

The power supply I use with the StreamPlayer Gen III is the HD-Plex 100watt linear power supply. It appears that HD-PLEX now may only sell a 200W and 400W power supply.

douglas_schroeder May 18, 2017 21:16

Owner

Having fun exploring a new dimension in sound! Ethernet cable! Mind blowing how even a cable dedicated to transmission of digital data before the digital source is efficacious! Sorry, I cannot divulge the company whose Ethernet cable I am using until the article is written, but it incorporates conductors using silver. Suffice to say to those who have ignored this link, you best get moving on trying an aftermarket Ethernet cable!

douglas_schroeder March 04, 2017 10:27

Owner

Zephyr, I have usually placed subs behind the mains, so in many of my pics the subs are not visible. I will likely put some new pics up soon. I have been experimenting with a much deeper and wider placement of the speakers. I have pushed them back much deeper into the corners of the room and there is no place for the subs behind them.

I am very pleased with the scale presented with the new placement. The Center, Left Center and Right Center all have grown proportionate to the L/R images. Rather than hearing anomalies due to placement near the sides and head wall I am hearing much more of what I like on a much larger scale.

This was no small change, as the speakers are now about 2.5 feet further recessed than prior. I like how the driver sets are more integrated and the bass more palpable with reinforcement from the front corners of the room, where the subs used to be. I found that putting the subs behind the mains blocked much of their output, but I didn't think I had a choice. The new position is ahead of the mains, flanking them and nearly touching the walls. Putting the subs ahead of the mains aids in countering the lag of the larger drivers' more sluggish transients.

It works pretty good!

douglas_schroeder February 18, 2017 21:11

Owner

Over the past couple months I have been experimenting with an alternative placement for my subwoofers. Rather than tuck them behind the mains I now have a spot flanking the mains and slightly ahead of them. This requires a longer interconnect to reach the subwoofers from the source, and outlets along the side walls to power the subs - glad I put so many outlets in the room! However, the results are hugely gratifying.

The subwoofers seem to interfere less with the mains in the new position and the also more easily confer their LF without undue higher output. They blend superbly with mains, much better than before. It reminds me of the Daedalus Ulysses and BOW system where the subs are located adjacent to the mains.

I was especially curious to see if having the subs ahead of the mains caused any perceived significant deterioration of sound quality, but I am unable to detect it. I consider the attempt a huge success.

I strongly recommend enthusiasts work with placement of the subs in alternate locations than just a corner. While it may appear unusual initially, one gets used to it soon enough and the sound improvement might be compelling.

douglas_schroeder January 09, 2017 09:59

Owner

Hey, Zephyr, good to hear from you! I'm using the Salk StreamPlayer Generation III following the review at Dagogo.com. I have built some wonderful rigs with it and find it tremendously "musical".

Every so often I retreat to a former source to double check my progress, to see if the lead I have attained through upgrades is real or evaporates with comparison. just tonight I slid the Musical Fidelity transport back into the system and fed the Exogal Comet DAC a SPDIF connection, and ran a comparison of the file server sound to the disc sound. Yes, the file playback was solidly more profound, rich, full bodied and tonally more beautiful. The Comet makes a new signal for all source digital input, so it was a manifestly fair comparison, I thought.

One might guess that since the Comet makes a new signal of any digital input the two would sound identical, but no, they were not close. The file playback was much preferred.

douglas_schroeder November 20, 2016 22:20

Owner

Initial exploration with dedicated server already surpasses my best effort with Mac Mini; doubtless the former is history. Moving from disc a few years ago to file playback has reaped continuing multiplied benefits. I strongly suggest that those who have been hesitant to convert to file playback do so. USB DACs are rewriting digital, imo (pardon the pun)!

douglas_schroeder July 11, 2016 09:41

Owner

It was a lovely AXPONA 2016, a great atmosphere and some terrific rooms. I heard some of the best systems ever at a show - show report will reveal all.

I am now pushing on from the Mac Mini based digital playback, maybe. That depends upon whether dedicated servers outclass the performance of the Mac with HQPlayer software which I have enjoyed for about two years. One would think that any number of streamers/players will do the trick. We'll see. I would expect no less than a shattering of the old performance of the Mac/HQPlayer.

I welcome thoughtful (not argumentative) comments on various digital file and streaming devices and your experiences with them. I am aware of Roon and the new set of ESS chips. Anyone using? What are your thoughts?

douglas_schroeder April 21, 2016 07:55

Owner

The Eastern Electric Minimax DAC Supreme is making another appearance! This good old standby performer is now shaking things up once again with a new amp in for review. When one gets the synergy between a good DAC and an amp on file playback, watch out! Extreme performance!

I am very eager to do some more discrete opamp rolling with the EE DAC, as the variety will be exhilarating. Over the years with different systems I have been able to improve the impact of the Kingsound King III's bass and it is quite good now, far more presence than even a year or two ago. However, it has taken some particular gear to obtain that level of LF from the speakers, such that a subwoofer is not absolutely necessary to have a tactile sense of the bass.

Kudos to Eastern Electric, as the Minimax DAC Supreme has continued to shine, and continues to impress. I am very pleased with the SS performance of this DAC; I pulled the tube out and am still able to get rich, lush tonality.

There is a distinct advantage to running a leaner rig, without an additional component (preamp) and set of cables in the signal path. When the leaner rig is established well, it is hard to beat overall. Then again, I have made some startlingly good rigs with the passive TEO Audio Liquid Pre, and that will be cycled in again soon.

douglas_schroeder February 15, 2016 08:18

Owner

There can be made a case for opting to own multiple amps rather than speakers. I'm getting a wide variety of response with speakers through swapping amps. One of the most obvious is to employ both a lower powered amp, and alternatively a higher powered one. The change to the speaker's performance is not subtle. If the disparity in characteristics of the amps is wide enough one nearly hears the speaker as though it is two completely different products.

Anyone else had a chance to conduct such comparisons? Thoughts?

douglas_schroeder January 29, 2016 10:18

Owner

The time has come to reveal more intimately the Vapor Audio Joule White 3 Speaker, which some may have noticed became the opening page picture in my virtual system a while ago. I have the speakers for about four months now, and they have been a delight! You can read about them in my owner's review at Dagogo.com.

This was quite an adventure for me, as it was the first speaker of higher pedigree I have purchased unheard. Obviously there are some serious risks in such an undertaking, but it has turned out well. There are not many speaker companies I would take such a chance, my predominant concern being the performance, but the Joule White 3 has justified my decision. At the conclusion of my review you will see the speakers of note that I feel the Joule White 3 compares well in terms of performance, obviously considering competitors which are more similar in design.

I have also been revisiting Class D amps, and as can be seen in the Vapor review, I am now working with the Red Dragon S500 Amplifier, actually a pair of them. These are in use with the Joule White 3, and the results have been spectacular.

douglas_schroeder January 20, 2016 18:51

Owner

eugene2, how about doing a six inch elevation with a severe forward slant on the front baffle. Would you do that, then get back to me? ;)

Actually, I'm only half joking. It is the kind of experiment I would try. The results could be fascinating. I may do it! Anyone wish to give me ideas on what products/items I could use to elevate the speaker?

douglas_schroeder January 09, 2016 09:47

Owner

eugene2, ever since I had my build of the Joule White 3 on the radar I watched your system development. You have made some huge strides in reinventing your system, and I can imagine the sea changes in sound. You are wise to not hold back on redoing the rig because the Vapors will keep giving and giving with whatever you upgrade.

Your elevation of the top module is interesting; I found some improvement with elevation of the speaker as well, but I'll save details for the review. How much height do you estimate the Nordost Pulsar points added to the top module? My first thought is that the sense of depth and presence is from physically separating the mid/treble a bit from the bass. This would be expected, somewhat like a subwoofer and satellite system.

These speakers take to cable changes like fish to water. The nuances are revealed so well that one can tune the rig quite easily simply by swapping cables.

douglas_schroeder December 27, 2015 18:40

Owner

Hearing speaker systems in close proximity to each other can be informative to further development. I just the other day removed the Vapor Joule White 3 in order to prepare for further writing. The bass is so superbly refined, so tactile and pure that with insertion of the Kingsound King Tower omni speakers I was grossly disappointed with the bass. The omnis are not a cost-no object effort, but rather a bargain along the lines of Magnepan; the original MSRP was $5K. Truly, the high end community lost a terrific opportunity to get omni sound at a very reasonable cost. This is a speaker which I believe would hold its own against most of the magnetic planar and ESL lines of popular makers. It was never showcased at events and languished until the distributor decided to dump it. Pity.

So, I determined to clean up the bass and the most reasonable solution was to offload the bass function of the Tower and push it onto the Legacy Audio XTREME HD subs versus using them merely for extreme LF. Good move; I took the subs to about 70 Hz and used the "Blend" or contour to tuck them in under the King Tower's mid/treble. Za-zoom, what a nice improvement! Now the King Tower has all the cleanness with impact I wanted, as well as a perceived more pristine mid/treble performance because the somewhat loose bass is removed.

What did I do with the freed up pair of speaker cables which were run to the bass cabinet? Why, I doubled the speaker cables to the mid/treble cabinet, thus improving the mid and upper end performance simultaneously! I love these kind of changes!

Cost? Zero. Perfect!

douglas_schroeder December 12, 2015 10:02

Owner

Thanks, guys! I admire your systems, as they both show dedication to refinement and excellence. Both systems are thought through well and I'm sure sound terrific.

The more I use the Joule White 3 the more I feel it is a bargain, a terrific payoff for the time invested in the build. The performance is stunning, breathtaking. The sense of extreme performance is like that of sitting in a high performance car and buckling up; be prepared for an adrenaline laced ride!

I'm elated that soon I will have an aftermarket umbilical for the Exogal Comet sent by Alex at Wywires. I have no doubt that this will be a clearly heard change for the system. At such a level of refinement every wire is distinctly influential on a system, and it's terrific fun to tune rigs with cables.

douglas_schroeder November 14, 2015 08:35

Owner

Papermill, yes, the Joule White 3 is pretty special! Frankly, I was wowed when I realized its capacity. And this is the beginning. Give it a year or so and it will be quite improved. No regression, forward progress only...

The current experience is a perfect example of how delusional the thought that one is right at the peak of performance. There are always not merely "steps", but "floors" of better sound quality possible. I think I jumped a few floors with this setup.

douglas_schroeder November 07, 2015 10:15

Owner

douglas_schroeder November 07, 2015 10:15

Owner

douglas_schroeder November 07, 2015 10:15

Owner

douglas_schroeder November 07, 2015 10:15

Owner

Dgarretson, nice to hear from you; I recall our conversation and invite you to give me a call anytime. I can update you on a few things.

Regarding the status of the new Joule White 3 speakers, though I do not rely upon my friends and industry associates' opinions to reach my verdict on products, three of them who have heard several of my systems unanimously were wowed by the speaker and consider it a triumph. It's rare for us four, who have quite particular tastes and nuances to our systems, to all be in unqualified agreement on the outstanding performance of a system's sound. This is the first time that all four of us have had no criticisms of the speakers and system, a very rare occurrence. In fact, it's the first time it has happened, which makes it notable. :)

Two of the products in use in this particular system are the Exogal Comet DAC and the TEO Audio Liquid Cables (see reviews recently published at Dagogo.com), and the other product is being written up as an owner's review and will appear at Dagogo.

douglas_schroeder November 05, 2015 08:15

Owner

System edited: The Joule White 3 has been in use for about 1 month. It delivers on the promise of extreme performance. It was a long project, but oh, so worthwhile!

douglas_schroeder November 03, 2015 21:10

Owner

Things are cooking very nicely now; I have put both a 25wpc Class A amp and a pair of 1,000wpc (bridged) Class D amps with the Vapor Audio Joule White 3. Simply splendid systems, both terrifically captivating. The performance is extreme, just the way I like it.

No subs necessary; the output of the Audio Technology 10" driver is impressive. I was quite concerned about the bass output switching from the Nimbus to the Joule, but all concerns have been allayed.

douglas_schroeder September 21, 2015 07:53

Owner

I had a glorious review opportunity in the TEO Audio Liquid Cables, and I didn't waste it. They are my new reference, besting all solid conductor cables previously used. See the review at Dagogo.com Those who are pursuing cost no object sound at the highest performance levels should look into them.

In other matters, I have taken possession of the long awaited Vapor Audio Joule White 3, aka the "Perfect Joule", and they have immediately established themselves as superior to the Nimbus White I enjoyed for so long. Owner's review forthcoming.

douglas_schroeder September 09, 2015 09:23

Owner

Knghifi, do you have a preference between Cardas and AQ?

I will be trying some Cardas single banana posts soon.

douglas_schroeder July 29, 2015 22:07

Owner

Knghifi, yes, I'm in complete agreement; one of the greatest joys is the high ROI tune up of a rig!

I'm also having quite an enjoyable time rustling up a premier sounding USB cable. I have tried about 13 or 14 of them now. I think that it is also one of the most cost effective solutions to revving up the digital. It is scary how "choked" the sound can be with a poor USB! But with the right one a system blossoms.

douglas_schroeder July 26, 2015 21:49

Owner

Eugene2, what were the veneer issues you had? No doubt the upgraded tweeter will be glorious!

douglas_schroeder July 14, 2015 16:19

Owner

Eugene2, congratulations on taking the call of the wall, and doing the outlet change! I can imagine how much a difference it made moving from stock outlets to the GTX. It was a sizable step up even from the military grade outlets, so from a big box store $1 outlet it would be profound. Glad you found the faith to try it.

Wow, discontented with the Joule already, huh. ;) Seriously, I don't think you will be disappointed in the upgrade to the larger top module. Larger ribbons have an ease to them, just as larger midranges often do. Some people seem to have difficulty with the ceramic drivers in speakers being too sharp for them, but I have never had this problem with the Nimbus White.

douglas_schroeder July 07, 2015 19:51

Owner

I have now plugged in the DAC as well as the amp, and the results compound; the beneficial qualities of the outlet have been additive. This is the answer to "power regeneration" without the downside that I have been looking for. I am very happy I didn't discount the potential of audiophile outlets.

douglas_schroeder June 13, 2015 21:09

Owner

I would like to publicly thank Chris VenHaus of VH Audio for recommending the Furutech GTX-D(G) Receptacle! Chris and I were discussing receptacles recently, and he loaned me a returned GTX, gold version to try.

I hadn't changed my room in terms of the build since it went up twelve years ago, when I put in military grade outlets with brass internals. The improvement conferred by the GTX gold was quite striking. It seems to my ear as though the GTX confers a great deal of the benefit of a power conditioner without the drawbacks. The sound is cleaner, more refined, etc. but there is additional nuance, not less due to filtering of another component. I rather enjoy the improvement and am going to outfit the entire front wall with the GTX outlet for all audio systems I build. The copper internals of the GTX certainly seem to be a winner!

So far I have only the Wells Audio Innamorata amp connected via the GTX, but the improvement has been such that I am moving to make it the "official outlet" of Doug's Audio Den, at least informally. :)

I'm elated that the outlet brought such a noticeable improvement across the board, as it's a fairly inexpensive way to up the system performance. I am especially looking forward to using the Kingsound King III electrostatic speakers with the new outlets, and I anticipate moderate improvement in their sound quality due to the GTX.

douglas_schroeder June 10, 2015 16:52

Owner

The only cables from Silnote not covered in the review which I have heard were at the latest AXPONA show. They have a new line featuring more silver conductors, and it was even more rich than last year, with greater finesse. Mark is doing a good job of capturing the detail afforded by silver, but without the thinness of so many silver and silver OFC cables.

douglas_schroeder May 18, 2015 19:00

Owner

Zephyr, thanks, I am not paid to attend shows or write reviews and show reports, and it's time away from other pursuits, but I figure people will enjoy the write up. Of course, I wouldn't attend if I didn't think I would come away with a list of superior electronics to pursue. :)

This is it, people; the Platinum Age of Audio! No doubt, systems can be put together that folks 40-50 years ago couldn't have imagined. File playback is MONSTER in it's ability to transform rigs. Get the right software, pre/DAC and amp, and you can blow the doors off the traditional system.

douglas_schroeder May 16, 2015 08:19

Owner

Zephyr, good comments, thanks!
How deeply I enter the SET pool depends upon a couple things, including an upcoming review of speakers. If that goes as well or better than expected, then I might push more deeply into that type of amplification.

Sure, give me a call; I will enjoy hearing about your developments.

douglas_schroeder May 06, 2015 08:30

Owner

Zephyr, good to hear from you; I assume you have an interest in the Legacy V speaker shown at AXPONA. I will have comment on it, as with many others. I have one show report part done and another coming soon. I found plenty of interesting things at the show to report on.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show, and I reached many rooms. I had wonderful conversations with attendees and reps. Many of the rooms were difficult with ventilation noise at a pretty high level. One had to listen past it. Other than that the venue was good.

Meanwhile, I'm returning to a SET amp for another go-round. It's been a while since I worked with them and my last impression of them was that they were lovely in terms of tonality and clarity, but not terrific in terms of weight. So, we'll see what happens this time.

douglas_schroeder May 03, 2015 06:38

Owner

Well, after attending AXPONA I'm quite content to be back to my rig, and especially my room. :)

douglas_schroeder April 30, 2015 19:38

Owner

Having a grand time currently attempting to turn the Kingsound King III ESL into a high efficiency speaker! While this is not possible in principle due to the design of the ESL, it is possible to experience the panel equivalent when you push massive amounts of current and wattage through the speakers and use the clean TEO Liquid Pre passive in the chain.

I'm running the Pass X600.5 Monos with the King III and have the TEO turned nearly full on, only one detent away from complete pass through. I am using the iPad's volume control for level selection. I would open the Liquid Pre up full throttle, but there is some electronic hum which becomes quite noticeable when open full. Only one step down halves the hum, which I'm not sure if it comes from the wall, Mac Mini, monitor associated or EE Minimax DAC Supreme. Regardless, when pushing this much power through the King III it wakes up brilliantly.

The Legacy Audio XTREME HD subs also love the power associated with the full throttle setting of the TEO Liquid Pre, as they become monsters, pulsing out huge LF. I have to keep them toned down to prevent ceiling tiles from rattling. :) I'm pleased by the seamless integration of the subs with the ESL speakers, no small credit given to the 6.1MHz up sampling of the HQPlayer software incorporated recently. The system quality of any rig I build has stepped up nicely due to the HQPlayer software, one of the most fabulous improvements I have ever done for the money, as it cost only $137, and has turned the discrete opamp-enhanced EE Minmax DAC Supreme into a far more capable DAC, which is now running better than 4xDSD. The ease of the sound is remarkable, the listenability at elevated levels is greatly enhanced. Older recordings are truly beautiful, not just tolerable. This is a realization of my principle that with a superior system all recordings, even older ones are ever more pleasing to the ear.

See my reviews of components mentioned here at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder April 13, 2015 10:43

Owner

My article regarding the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme and DAC Junior is now published. Tremendous fun discrete opamp rolling the Supreme!

But the really incredible news is the radically upgraded digital from using the fabulous HQPlayer software for Mac with my stock Mac Mini! As you can read in the article, simply putting this software on my stock Mac Mini resulted in matching the sound quality of a dedicated two tower PC source running J-River and HQPlayer! The witnesses were incredulous that my humble Mac could do such a thing!

I'm supposed to be reviewing servers soon, and they had better be pretty incredible, because the HQPlayer software does a bang up job of converting PCM to double DSD! Hats off to Jussi Laako, the one man show at Signalyst, the maker of HQPlayer! If he can update the interface to make it more streamlined, this will be a breathtaking product!

douglas_schroeder March 25, 2015 17:42

Owner

Eugene2, yes, I think you have moved in a very upscale direction with the Vapor speakers. (Necessary disclosure; I reviewed the Nimbus White, and own it). By the time you put all that into the Swans, you would be better off going the route you did - good move.

I will likely contact Mike to check out the USB.

douglas_schroeder March 21, 2015 19:12

Owner

Eugene2, I was looking at your system's previous components and saw the Swan speakers. I had a chance to hear them at CES one year, but came away ambivalent. Did you ever build the system with the Swan speakers?
What was your impression of them? A vastly different presentation than the Vapor.

douglas_schroeder March 21, 2015 09:28

Owner

Eugene2, sounds like you are quite serious about pursuit of excellence in systems and obtaining a euphoric listening experience!

Please fill me in if you get to compare the Clarity USB to others. I also would like to know how your experience with the Odyssey mono amps goes.

I have a Nuforce little integrated in my living room, which doesn't see much action. Just something for playing Rhapsody through Sonos. I took it down to the big rig once to see where it stood, and as expected, reasonable but not Giant Killer sound. At the price it would be sensational if it did outperform separates; not likely.

What were you using in terms of power cables prior to the Verastarr?

douglas_schroeder March 19, 2015 09:21

Owner

Mitch2, let's talk. Send me a message using the system here.

douglas_schroeder March 18, 2015 19:40

Owner

Roscoeiii, wow, that's a world away from your original goal! However, I understand the ebb and flow of moving through different permutations of systems over the years. A person can end up quite far from where they thought they were headed - and be very happy. I used to flip back and forth between panel and dynamic speakers, and I recall how happy I was when I found the Eminent Technology LFT-8 speakers, which seemed to combine the benefits of both. I get it when a combination you weren't looking for strikes the ear pleasantly. :)

douglas_schroeder March 18, 2015 04:58

Owner

Roscoeiii, good to hear from you. I thought you were going to put your money on speakers. Did you change your mind?

Mitch2, I'm hoping to hear the Antipodes at some time. My experience from a few days ago suggests the proper software "server-ized" my stock Mac Mini, as the DAC is now operating in dual DSD (5.6 MHz). Not to say that its as good as all servers, but it matched one directly compared, dedicated two tower PC server running J-River. That makes a person think.

douglas_schroeder March 17, 2015 21:35

Owner

Marqmike, there is an amazing rate of change happening in digital playback in the past few years, not just with the gear, but with software, too. It's stunning how good file PCM (Redbook) playback has become, as well as the price to obtain it falling to extremely affordable levels - if one knows where to look. You definitely need to watch for that review, because it may answer some of your questions regarding the gear.

Feel free to contact me via the Agon system.

douglas_schroeder March 17, 2015 08:11

Owner

This past weekend was transformative; a visit from an industry insider and a computer file playback enthusiast left my rig with a head-spinning, super-cheap upgrade and performing digital conversion from PCM to double DSD! The file playback front end has changed, and has lifted the rig to a beautiful new performance level.

The digital playback is smokin' hot now. All will be revealed in a review of a DAC to be published shortly at Dagogo.com.

douglas_schroeder March 16, 2015 19:40

Owner

The TEO Liquid Pre has once again transformed a speaker system. I had not taken the time to use the Kingsound King Tower, full range omnidirectional speakers, with the Liquid Pre, but I knew the results would be good based on the performance of it with other speakers. Setting up the King Tower has been a joyous occasion, as the affordable omni (MSRP was at $5K) in some respects does better than any of the other speakers.

The Mushroom Cloud soundstage is a celebration, an enveloping experience which is captivating. The cleanness and nuanced information heard from this speaker is second to none of the others. The acoustic envelope for voice is as generous as a large horn speaker. Listening to vocals well recorded is an arresting experience, as they are convincingly real sounding. This is the only small tower I have heard in recent memory capable of painting such a large and convincing "canvas".

The weakness in the King Tower has always been the bass; there is a fair bit of involvement of the not so well braced/quieted cabinet. I would like to upgrade the Mid and Bass drivers and crossovers, and put a residue treatment inside the cabinets to quiet them. I think the speaker could perform at an even higher level then.

But, even as it is, the experience is so good that if I had to select, I might prefer the King Tower (with the Legacy XTREME HD subs) to the King III ESL!

douglas_schroeder March 04, 2015 11:29

Owner

4orreal, there is a slight degradation, impossible to avoid, whenever a splitter is used. However, what are your priorities? What if the slight degradation meant that you could add subwoofers? What if it meant you could add another amp? Imo, those things are so vastly more influential that the splitter becomes inconsequential. Would I avoid a splitter and lose a chance at adding a subwoofer, or adding a second amp? Never! I will use a splitter whenever it will confer a distinct advantage to do so.

I do not hesitate to use the splitter when I have to. The advantages so outweigh the disadvantage that I don't even think negatively of using it any longer.

Remember, simply because a preamp has two outs in no way assures the sound quality will be superior. I would much rather use the TEO with splitters than the active SS preamps I have used previously with dual outputs.

douglas_schroeder February 25, 2015 20:49

Owner

4orreal, I'm sorry to hear that your quest for XLR was unproductive. I have been told some info about product development, and it sounds exciting. Since the Liquid Pre is made in small bunches a change would be costly for a one-off.

If you were referring to wishing for a second set of RCA outs, there is a workaround for having only one pair of RCA outputs. I have been using Audioquest RCA 1 to 2 splitters for several years and they work very well. I have used them with the Liquid Pre to run a second RCA out to the Legacy Audio XTREME HD Subwoofers. If a person was so inclined they could run a second pair of interconnects to another stereo amp and have four channels of amplification for passive vertical biamping of speakers. I have done such things on occasion and it's a lot of fun.

douglas_schroeder February 24, 2015 20:13

Owner

System edited: Putting up some beautiful systems lately with the TEO Audio Liquid Pre. I had a seasoned audiophile who runs SET/HE and vinyl, as well as an industry insider here lately. Both enthusiastically endorsed the rig as the best I have assembled. I'm quite pleased with the combination of the TEO Liquid Pre and Wells Audio Innamorata amp.

douglas_schroeder February 22, 2015 21:23

Owner

Eugene, It's fun watching you remake your system and experience the thrill of a massive upgrade. We tend to think the current sound is pretty close to state of the art, but there are literally hundreds of levels of sound quality and always a lot of room for improvement.

Make sure you demo the TEO Audio Liquid cable interconnects.

USB cable is crucial to top end sound for file playback; it can make or break the entire system's sound. Then again, I've often said that every link, from power cord to speaker is crucial.

I do have many "just sit there and listen moments," as you said, and they are precious. But at heart I am a system builder, and find joy in exploration of systems as much as anything. That's why I love having more than one type of speaker technology and the opportunity of discrete opamp rolling a DAC. Both yield endless fun and new experiences. :) You will be able to get much of the same flexibility and new experiences through USB cables.

I'm looking forward to the massive upgrade in sound quality over the Nimbus White which the Joule White will represent. You have just gotten the new speaker, and if you continue to work with it you will be stunned how differently it will sound in six to twelve months! It has a lot more to give than you are hearing now. :)

douglas_schroeder February 16, 2015 10:39

Owner

System edited: Did some picture updating, now showing the incredible TEO Audio Liquid Pre, a world-class caliber preamp. You will see in the pic that I am conducting tests on isolation. This is the only component I have used in the digital domain for which isolation has proven to be efficacious. I have been doing no streaming with the Sonos lately, as I can't get a WiFi signal into my bunker-like room through Apple products. I will be rearranging the home office to put it closer to the audio room beneath, so I hope that will fix the WiFi issue. Then I can push the boundaries of Sonos further. I have a custom build of the Vapor Audio Joule White coming soon. Combined with the Liquid Pre and Wells Innamorata amp it should push the performance to a new standard.

douglas_schroeder February 15, 2015 12:55

Owner

System edited: It's been a while since I updated my system. I have moved completely to file playback, with a Mac Mini controlled by iPad, a sensational world-class preamp in the TEO Audio Liquid Pre, continued discrete opamp rolling on Eastern Electric DACs, and have laid plans to secure a custom tricked out version of the Vapor Audio Joule White. The system has taken a decidedly SOTA turn in the past year, and file playback has been instrumental in it. USB cables have been essential, and a test between about eight products has found the Clarity Cable Organic USB to find consistent use in my rig. The Landscape orientation experiment was considered successful, but to extend other elements, i.e. TEO Audio Liquid Pre, I let go of the Daedalus Ulysses speakers. I have some other ideas in mind for further Landscape experiments. I am also summoning the courage to delve into a DIY build of Hypex nCore amps.

douglas_schroeder February 14, 2015 20:00

Owner

Eugene2, I'm certainly not opposed to dedicated servers. I would anticipate that over time I will explore them thoroughly. Knowing that it's a big digital world out there for file playback, with a lot of moving pieces (companies, systems, etc.), when our household switched to Mac I thought it a lovely time to start simple with the Mac Mini. I had read all about the tweaks to the Mini, as well as the "opposition" PC file playback crowd.

Seeing how Mac is upgrading their Mini to have 32 bit ouput, which mine does, I'm happy I didn't go for an older unit and spend big on external PSU, etc. Macintosh upgrades their operating software's audio and I get an upgrade, too. And with the myriad of small servers out there, I'm not too worried that Mac will be out of business anytime soon. These are not minor considerations.

I thought it would be nice to start basic and see just how far I could get with a scratch computer, i.e. stock, and simultaneously entertain a theory that with the right DAC one might be able to replicate much of what a fancy dedicated server could do.

Right or wrong, I have made astounding strides in the sound quality of the humble Mac Mini. This is not to say that it's proven to be equal or better than a server, but it's surpassed where I thought it could get to. It's demonstrated to me that the selection of DAC, USB cable, interconnects and power cord in the file playback chain is profoundly important.

I figure in this year I will begin to work with some servers, and frankly I'm going to be disgusted if the sound quality is not radically better, for all the discussion about it being superior. The result I'm getting has surprised some veteran audiophiles who have heard my rig. I don't think they figured this kind of sound was possible from a humble file playback source.

I have an industry insider coming to my home this weekend, and I'm looking forward to having him hear the rig, as he heard it years ago and it's much more marvelous now than when I was spinning discs. He has a blown out dual computer setup with special software to optimize the playback. So, I think it will be very interesting to hear his comments. I'm hoping that the computer guru who set his system up will tag along as he may be able to come as well. Then I may get some very knowledgeable input as to where in general my efforts have gotten me.

Do I think I'm at the top of file playback? No, but neither do I think a file playback computer is an assurance that one will get optimum sound quality. I have heard systems with all manner of software, reclocking, power conditioning, etc. and I believe that I have already matched that level of definition and transparency, so what does that say?

To me it says the "K.I.S.S." method is working pretty good so far. But, I have also learned well enough that simply because the sound is great to my ears, it in no way means there is not a lot of gain to be had in improvements. I would love if at the end of this year I can look back and scoff at the sound quality I have now by moving to a custom server. :)

One of the people who will hear this rig eventually is Ryan at Vapor. He thought the Nimbus White sounded pretty good when they were first set up, but things have gotten far better.

douglas_schroeder February 04, 2015 14:33

Owner

I just posted some impressions of the TEO Audio Liquid Pre (hopefully posted here in the Amplification forum; awaiting moderator approval. It's posted at AA).

I recently set up the Pass Labs X600.5 monos (reviewed, as was the Liquid Pre, for Dagogo.com) and they have been transformed. No longer do they exhibit the thinness I thought was characteristic of them. I now suspect that active preampfification was the culprit in that sound quality. The Liquid Pre and X600.5 is a stellar combo. These are driving the Vapor Audio Nimbus White speakers to great effect. I love the bass presence and quality of the Acoustic Elegance 15" bass driver.

The digital front end is under review, but I will say that I'm doing 32/384. Years ago I said that the ESS Sabre 32 bit chips and architecture would become the standard of digital playback, and they effectively have done so. Not surprising, given the performance.

This is a system I can hear and actually for a while shut down my analytical side, which is very rare. :)

douglas_schroeder January 17, 2015 10:13

Owner

Papermill, thanks for the complement, which means much given the outstanding rig you have assembled.

Papermill and I have been friends for the better part of the decade and have seen our rigs "grow up" alongside each other. He has a very live sounding room, albeit with excellent absorption elements in the form of rug, soft sided furniture, etc. to complement the delicious décor.

I, on the other hand, have a very damped room, more like a studio. The difference in listening environment is quite striking, and we always remark about it. We have both reached a very high level of performance in two distinct spaces. We both enjoy each other's rig, and admire the sound, which is a great part of this hobby!

Papermill heard the Mac Mini, Clarity Cable Organic USB, a particular DAC under review, the new TEO Liquid Pre, the Wells Audio Innamorata amp, some cables under review, and the Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition (custom edition of the Whisper with 10Ga. Clarity Cable throughout internally). He was in agreement this was the most pristine and involving the Whisper had ever sounded. One of the most striking attributes of adding the Liquid Pre was how dramatically the multiplicity of drivers of the Whisper were tightened in terms of coherency to the point that the speaker lost a great deal of looseness characteristic of line array type speakers.

Now, the most recent build returns to some favorites of the past; Mac Mini via Clarity USB to DAC under review, to Liquid Pre, then Clarity Organic IC to Pass Labs X600.5 Monos, and once again the speaker cables under review, and finally the Vapor Audio Nimbus White. Wow, what a bomb, like a Daisy Cutter has been dropped; quite impressive how much clean output the pair of Acoustic Elegance woofers produce.

The Pass Labs amps are now operating with no weakness; the thinner character I mentioned in the review is gone, and they are holistically improved, very difficult to find fault with this application. The headroom and dynamic power of the X600.5 is, as expected with Pass amps, intoxicating.

I just spoke with Ryan Scott of Vapor yesterday, and told him that it was just as I had said when he delivered the Nimbus White speakers; they would be sounding much better with time. Indeed, they have a much elevated performance level with the Liquid Pre - all the speakers have benefitted thus.

The Liquid Pre does amazing things for rigs, and is one of the simplest, yet most extreme performing components I have laid hands on.

douglas_schroeder January 13, 2015 09:22

Owner

I can now discuss my latest joy, the TEO Audio Liquid Pre, which the article exploring is now posted at Dagogo.com.
In case you can't sense it, I'm floored by this passive preamp which uses liquid metal conductors in the wiring. I always enjoy the technology variances in components and systems, and I am quite pleased to have secured such a unique and sensational preamp.

douglas_schroeder January 11, 2015 06:36

Owner

Jeff, some very good questions. Yes, I know that it seems incredible that a USB cable would have any influence on the sound, but it does. In fact, it has as much impact on the sound for the rig as any other cable. I have, through comparisons of dozens of sets of cables, concluded that any cable has an effect on the system sound, and that any cable can have as much of an impact as any other cable, i.e. USB versus power cord, versus interconnect, etc.

People make their decision on whether they believe it, and act accordingly; those who simply will try are usually rewarded. I am currently using a Clarity Cable Organic USB most often, but I have tried about ten USB cables in my rigs and they all are distinct in sound.

The subwoofers are not front firing, but are Legacy Audio XTREME HD subs which I turned around to have the primary wave launch direct versus off the front wall. They look a lot prettier the other way around, with the face showing, but I prefer the sound this way. You will likely be surprised at how much more is added to a system when using dual subs.

douglas_schroeder August 24, 2014 11:37

Owner

Roscoeiii, nice to hear from you. There have been many changes in the system since you were here, and the performance has been improved across the board. I don't think you heard my file source, or the rig with speakers repositioned wider.

douglas_schroeder August 22, 2014 22:10

Owner

Jeff, you're right, the Vapor speakers are quite tempting given their aesthetics, performance level and pricing.

I have gotten the, "So, which do you like the best," question several times from a friend who has heard about half the systems I have set up in the past 5 years or so, and I believe all the speakers. I will tell you the same thing I tell him; my favorite is the one in the rig at the time.

I suspect that's a thoroughly unsatisfying answer, but there are two reasons for it. One is that I expended my budget differently in order to never have to face that question, as I discovered I love the variety of technology and experiencing it as much as the movement toward an ideal expression of one technology. If I had only one speaker I'd likely still be flipping them regularly in an attempt to attain all the sonic qualities they possess.

Secondly, I attempted to select speakers any one of which could be a long term choice, that is, to perform on a level which I would be happy using. As such it is my experience that I often am happiest with the speaker in the rig. If another is put in, shortly I'm elated with that one...

The experience shows several things, including how quickly we adapt to a new sound, how malleable our perceptions are over time, and how many terrific varieties of systems exist, none having it all in terms of a perfect performance.

In a way they are like pets (I think it would be crude to compare them to children), in that an owner of several pets would struggle to simply dismiss all but one. They are unique and pleasing individually. So also the speakers, as they are unique and bring different experiences, which I consider overall a more powerful enjoyment of the hobby than one experience.

The Vapor easily found a place in my system due to its phenomenal coherence and accuracy, and in that respect it is the equal of the King III ESL. Yes, when it's in my system it's my favorite. :)

Finally, I think you have done a commendable job on your rig! I have the Peachtree Nova in my office running with some vintage Eminent Technology LFT-VI speakers, a nice pairing. I also think Thiel did a good job with the SCS-4T, which reminds me somewhat of the Tannoy dual concentric drivers. I would think the combo of the Peachtree and Thiel speakers would sound very good, snappy, fresh, but not irritating. Kudos on putting a good sub with them; good move. You have selected components which I would strongly consider at that price point, so from my perspective you're doing things right. :)

I have a couple of tweak thoughts for your system; if you are interested feel free to contact me via the messaging system here.

douglas_schroeder August 22, 2014 09:36

Owner

Radiohead99, these are DACs under review, so I'm not saying much at this point so as to not spill the guts of the findings before the articles are published. If you wish to contact me privately, we can chat.

I will say, however, that I'm finding a lot of ways to elicit great sound from a variety of USB DACs at all price points, from a few hundred dollars to a couple thousand. Also, so far the 32 bit/384kHz up sampling is very impressive treatment of standard CD's. The quality is broadly better than 24/96 high end players I used/reviewed just a few years ago. At this point I would say a move to a USB 32/384 DAC would almost assure a holistically superior sound to 24/96, and perhaps even 24/192 CD players and DACs from five years ago, in general.

In terms of the server, it couldn't get any easier, as I'm using a stock Mac Mini, ripped using iTunes, and on playback switching between iTunes and Amarra (not the latest version as of about a week go - gotta upgrade that!). Even though the server is far from totally tricked out the SQ is excellent. An aftermarket PC on the Mac Mini is recommended, and I'm using one from Audioquest (Note, it's not the typical IEC plug; I think it's a C7 if I'm not mistaken). The performance will get better over time, but even if it plateaued at this point it would be a success. I can hardly imagine having to go back to discs; it would be a step backwards. Due to circumstances I had the transport in the rig for a while this week and I was happy to get back to the Mac and files (Not rank and file!).

One thing which has become evident is that the quality of the DAC is so pervasive that one should audition several. Choose a DAC which results in a performance level which you feel is far, far better than you anticipated possible. If the sound is nice improvement but not radically superior, keep looking.

BTW, also pay careful attention to the USB cable; it's critical to the performance.
You owe it to yourself to try at least 2 or 3.

douglas_schroeder July 24, 2014 17:39

Owner

File playback is progressing quite nicely; SQ levels much higher than I anticipated at this point. I'm comparing a wide variety of USB and DAC components and finding a huge range of performance variance as expected.

I urge those who have been slow to make USB cable changes to do so, as there is a figurative world of quality potential to be discovered, even for those with affordable digital front end.

The elevation of the file playback has lifted the performance of the already impressive Vapor Nimbus White, and I expect similar results with Legacy Whisper, King III, Daedalus, etc.

I'm still only working with PCM converted to AIFF, and had industry members in the room to hear. They are impressed with the result which is largely due to the DACs and USB cabling used, and that's before I even have DSD rolling. I strongly encourage those who have been reluctant to start out with file playback. It has been several months, and I haven't a desire to return to Redbook. That says to me the File playback test is a rousing success! And I'm just getting started. :)

douglas_schroeder May 08, 2014 08:43

Owner

Roscoe, thank you for the kind words! I'm glad you liked my bunker room! I did a lot of wondering as I built it whether it would pay off, and it certainly has.

System building is such an adventure; I wish you could hear what's happened to the system since you were here. It's much improved, which may seem difficult to imagine, but I would place the improvement perceptually as quite significant. The change is beyond swapping a few cords, more on the order of moving up the line in a speaker brand. I am working with a new DAC and the upscale sound is impressive, making the Nimbus White dramatically better than before. I wouldn't go so far as to say the current sonic quality makes the previous sound poor, but there is a striking upgrade to the experience, perhaps as much as some would say exists between analogue and digital.

douglas_schroeder April 09, 2014 11:07

Owner

Roscoeiii, Yes, most definitely, these speakers and panels in general differ greatly in how capable they are in pressurizing the room. The Legacy Whisper and Vapor Nimbus White can do so with ease, the Daedalus Ulysses can do so, but with higher SPL, or with the attending BOW supplemental woofer (also discussed in the review).

The King Sound King III ESL has a surprising amount of bass presence but cannot generate the focused impact of the Legacy and Vapor. I use subs with the King III ESL and the effect is impressive. Panel vs. dynamic is quite a different experience and one cannot typically have the benefits of both at the same time.

douglas_schroeder March 21, 2014 10:34

Owner

Radiohead99, I have already spent some time discussing the differences between the Whisper and the Nimbus White in the review, and bit here, I believe, so I'll ask that curious parties mine these resources for that comparison.

The Daedalus Ulysses is quite a different design, as it is influenced by the harmonics of an acoustic instrument, namely that of a guitar. Consequently, the cabinet will interact with the drivers differently, the driver complement is arranged symmetrically, and the overall presentation is "softer", or more "forgiving" in a sense, closer to a Vandersteen, Salk or Chapman sound, as opposed to speakers like Rhaido, Wilson or Vivid.

I have taken to calling such differences in general "Romantic" sounding speakers versus "Surgical" sounding speakers. I am avoiding the word "clinical" when referring to the Nimbus White and super-precise speakers because it is NOT sterile at all; the precision is absolutely beautiful, every bit as beautiful as those who love tonality over the last bit of precision feel it is beautiful.

Both types of speakers have their fans. I feel the Ulysses (I do not have the V.2 upgrade) has more definition than some other Romantic speakers. To determine whether you would be happy with either one you must answer the question of whether you seek definition/detail at all costs. If not, then the Ulysses would be agreeable, and if so then you would be better off with the Nimbus (either Black or White version).

I generally push for limitless definition/detail/imaging, for I do not accept the argument that one can have too much of these in an audio system. I believe that when there is a perception of too much detail there are other problems with the rig. Yet, I am always surprised at how easily I slip back into full enjoyment of the Romantic speaker sound. It takes a couple days to adjust to it, but the appreciation of it does return in full. It is delightful to have both types of sound available, just as dynamic and panel sounds are wonderful to compare. The Nimbus White has Electrostatic speaker-like precision, which puts the comparison between the Ulysses and Nimbus more in terms of Panel-like vs. dynamic.

douglas_schroeder March 20, 2014 10:47

Owner

Dpatterson, thank you for the complement; I appreciate it!

As can be seen in my pics of speakers I have used or owned I do not subscribe to the adage that a large speaker is inherently too big for a moderately sized room.
:) I think the Nimbus would have worked in your room, but the overall experience will be better sized and a step up in terms of overall quality with the Joule.

douglas_schroeder March 18, 2014 18:36

Owner

Grannyring, I find a wide variance between what audiophiles wish their front end to do, even when it comes to file playback. Formats and software which plump the sound may be less absolutely clean, but are preferred by many as they wish to have a "richer" experience. These audiophiles typically indicate that they wish to have a certain tonality above all. So, there is going to be no consensus on which format or software for playback is best. Add to that the various forms of systems and it is very difficult to proclaim one manufacturer or method "the best." For me, I seek the cleanest file playback and can contour the tonality with the system.

I have been in contact this week with a manufacturer of an audiophile server who states flat out that his server smokes any permutation of Mac, period. I may check that out in due time. One selects their authority and gets their results.

Suffice to say there are many experts/authorities and methods. I find it not uncommon for a relatively unknown (but typically more elegant in design) product to best a powerhouse, or more complex product. I would assume the same will happen regularly as I work through file playback over the years.

douglas_schroeder March 15, 2014 10:18

Owner

Grannyring, thanks for the suggestions. I had discussed with Steve the particulars of the Mac Mini system you describe prior to my setting up the file playback. I also discussed in depth with other manufacturers such things, as well as which file format to use.

Would you be surprised if I found a wide variance in opinions on such matters as hardware, software, ancillary equipment used or not used with such a setup? Indeed, there are numerous opinions as to how best to do so. I made my selection partly based on the fact that I intend on reviewing various file playback systems. I also was not interested in purchasing an old Mac unit which would need to be heavily modded. Imo, I would anticipate that I will at some point encounter a server which will vastly outperform the Mini. So, I am not going "all in" financially until I weigh what the server options are. This current file playback setup is my starting point and I anticipate it will be quite different in a few years.

I have no interest in sorting out the XLD thing; my rips have shown no degradation by avoiding it. As I indicated, the XLD files do not sound any better than ones ripped using iTunes. So, when you say, "Stay away from iTunes," I disagree based on my results. Perhaps a factor in the positive results was that I treated every disc with a disc treatment. I cannot say so definitively as I did not conduct a comparison; I treated the discs for Redbook playback and the treatment was highly efficacious for that purpose.

So... I started out with as close to a clean slate as I could. My guess is the front end will develop (BTW, I am on a one man crusade against the improper use of the word "evolve" in discussion of anything requiring intelligence) into perhaps something quite different in the not too distant future. :)

douglas_schroeder March 14, 2014 09:30

Owner

From hearing the Aeris at shows I would suggest it to have a more plump and perhaps slightly more open midrange than the Nimbus White, primarily due to use of an 8" Midrange driver. Imo, simply the size of the Midrange driver has a pervasive influence upon the performance. I tend to prefer no less than 5" Mid driver(s).

The DSP bass in Aeris is very useful especially for difficult rooms, but it comes at the cost of only one amp option - the built-in Class D. Legacy is aware that I recommend the option of eschewing the on board amp for one's own choice. Yes, built-in amp and cable cost savings via integral amp are significant.

In terms of soundstage, noting the height difference I believe the nature of the Mid/Treble experience would be roughly similar with a nearly M/T/M driver config in the Aeris compared to a perfect M/T/M in the Nimbus White, excepting the comment previously made about the nature of the Legacy's mid driver. I would not simply declare one of these better than the other. In order to find a preference I would have to compare in my room.

Suffice to say there are plenty of differences to compare. Like Vapor, Legacy offers wonderful value to performance ratio, so I'd have to hear them both to judge more strictly.

I know about the Perfect Storm but will maintain confidentiality on it's construction. Suffice to say it will be impressive.

douglas_schroeder March 11, 2014 14:57

Owner

I have been waiting to share my extended impressions of the Vapor Nimbus White; now all can read them at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 15:39

Owner

Rockadanny, Thank you; the systems and the room are a testament to what can be done with long term, i.e. 20 years, planning and execution.

The product I used to treat my CDs is Essence of Music. I was a beta tester for Essence of Music, and as such I will not write a review of it. However, I wrote an endorsement of its ability to enhance the sound of Redbook based on my use of it. If it was not efficacious I would not have written an endorsement. Since it works so well I took the time to treat my entire collection.

It should be noted that there is a caution with the product that it not be used with certain dual layer discs, as it can damage them. I have firsthand knowledge of this, so it is not a hollow warning. I used the product only on CDs of ages varying up to 20-some years old and had no instances of incompatibility or damage.

I have no patience for ineffective methods, no matter how popular or promoted. CD treatment has proven to be efficacious, so I use it. I do not consider it a tweak as the effect is repeatable from disc to disc and permanent once treated. The sound quality difference is immediately noticeable and passes a threshold such that one does not have to strain to hear the difference. I found that the Essence of Music provided more profound change in Redbook than other cleaning or polishing methods.

I conducted some tests with treated CDs vs. non-treated in terms of burning a copy to see if it would sound better. The results indicated to me that a treated original produced a better sounding copy, and that copy in turn sounded better when treated than the original CD. Some may scoff at this or wish to challenge or argue it. I am not interested in arguing my results. I merely share this as it was the motivation for me to treat all my discs prior to ripping them.

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 10:45

Owner

Al, There is a fair bit of difference between the newer Aeris and the Whisper in the Legacy line, so imo it would not be proper to simply lump them together in comparison to the Nimbus White. The Aeris would be closer to the principles employed in the Nimbus White, that being a "tighter" driver configuration along classic speaker design principles; i.e. single, or at most a matched parallel pair of drivers operating as one (like the Nimbus's Mid drivers.

This leads to higher coherency overall between driver sets imo and the presentation is profoundly different than a line source speaker. I have come to classify the Whisper as a quasi-line source speaker as it utilizes sets of drivers versus the traditional designs. Consequently, the Whisper is quite different in terms of dynamics and coherency. The Aeris and Nimbus White are to my ear "tighter" up and down the frequency spectrum. The Whisper, however, has capacity to open up the soundstage in a manner unlike either. I would describe the Whisper as more "romantic" in sound compared to the Aeris and Nimbus White. These others are more tight in terms of image definition. This is due predominantly to differences in design. There are benefits and trade offs for each technology.

Both of these expressions of design are quite pleasing, nearly as different as a panel speaker and a dynamic speaker. The widespread set of Midrange drivers of the Whisper fool the ear into thinking it is hearing a panel, only localized a bit more to the center of the speaker. The bass up high and low fill the room in a markedly different manner than any speaker with only a lower positioned bass driver. These differences are quite easily discerned when the speakers are used in direct comparison in the same room/systems.

In terms of people seeking direction as to selection of speakers, I would have them determine whether tonality and scale of images along with sheer dynamic impact is most critical or definition and solidity of imaging and tautness of bass. If the former is foremost, then they should look at the Whisper, and if the latter they should look at the Aeris and Nimbus White. I find that the experience is so varied that both the Whisper and Nimbus White can lead the owner into glorious experiences, though sonically distinct.

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 10:02

Owner

Lawrence, thanks for asking your questions, as they are good ones. Readers of my answer should keep in mind that I wrote a review of the Nimbus White for Dagogo.com.

Not having the two speakers side by side in my room my impressions are not absolute. However, I would suggest that one could legitimately compare the Nimbus White to the Alexia as well as the Sasha W/P. I would go so far as to say the most likely parallel in the Wilson line would be the Alexia. I am well aware of the sizable price differential between the two speakers. I would like to say quite a bit more, but I believe it would be inappropriate given that the review is pending and I purchased the speakers. I believe my perspective on the capabilities of the Nimbus White will be clear once the review is published.

As to the software used to rip Redbook discs, I have an interesting perspective. I attempted to use XLD initially, but was having so many hangups that after discussing it with some individuals in the industry and finding no consensus I simply ditched it. I ripped the discs in AIFF format using iTunes. Expecting there to be perhaps serious consequences for skipping the online matching of bits to get "bit perfect," copies, I was surprised to realize that it seems to have had zero effect on the sound quality. Indeed, the discs ripped without all the comparison afforded by XLD seem every bit as superb, and it took a lot less time!

My conclusion is that the primary benefit of the ripping software may be in the particular metadata format one selects. XLD seemingly did nothing to enhance the playback. Further, it also seemed to do nothing to eliminate dropouts on CD's which have a serious defect in the surface. My conclusion? I'm just as well off without XLD. I simply use iTunes, putting the CD into AIFF format and check the error correction option. I treat all discs prior to ripping, and I believe this may have more efficacy in terms of file playback than the software used to rip.

I was hoping for at least Redbook quality, but have achieved better already, even without upgrading USB cable, DAC or aftermarket file playback software. I have been using Amarra and find that it is preferable with certain systems/music.

douglas_schroeder March 09, 2014 14:38

Owner

System edited: I have added the Mac Mini as "Transport" to the system listing. I find it incredible that there is no option for a computer-based source in the system listing given the popularity of file playback. The Mini is performing at a high level; it has an aftermarket PS Audio power cord with C-7 plug and I'm using a Furutech GT-2 USB cable (1M) currently. The humble overachieving Musical Fidelity V-90 DAC (reviewed for Dagogo.com) rounds out this introductory file playback system. I envision cable, software and DAC experimentation as time goes by. With the Vapor Audio Nimbus White speakers (also reviewed, but not yet published) the system clearly outperforms previous efforts with more costly front end, namely Redbook, and I have not yet pushed it to any great degree.

douglas_schroeder March 04, 2014 18:46

Owner

Zephyr, that's a good question, and the nomenclature does not distinguish between finishes or aesthetics, besides the color of the Midrange drivers.

Primarily the designation "Black" or "White" denotes the particular Midrange drivers used in the speaker. The black midranges are the 6" Wavecor with paper cones (technically, I believe it is paper impregnated with synthetic fibers), versus the Nimbus White's 6" Accuton Ceramic coned drivers.

The difference in sound is that the Black version is more laid back, with less absolute definition. I have not heard the Black version. However, the Accuton is more defined and in my estimation has quickness and cleanness comparable to an electrostatic speaker, only more focused, of course. My opinion is that there is no such thing as too much definition in a high end audio system, so I welcome the super-revealing/refined sound of the Nimbus White.

I believe the other models of Vapor speakers in Black version use a 6" Audio Technology driver.

douglas_schroeder February 24, 2014 14:45

Owner

Needfreestuff, thanks for the comments; I am very blessed and try not to take it for granted!

Yes, those are Pass Labs X600.5 monos and they are excellent at presenting an easy, effortless sense of power and dynamics.

As to the variety of speakers I use, I lost the willpower to continue scouring the Earth for the One, the perfect speaker. ;)

douglas_schroeder February 19, 2014 11:10

Owner

Ryan, I have been working through four permutations of speakers with an integrated under review, so no tubes currently. However, I'm on the last pair of speakers (Including the Nimbus White). This has given me a broad understanding of the performance of the integrated with different speakers.

In a few more days it will be the Nimbus's turn to again be in the spotlight, and I was planning to run a rig with tubes somewhere in the signal path, likely the VAC Phi 200 amps. It will be fun to hear how the different output taps influence the speaker. In the past speakers have responded readily to the selection of the output posts' differing impedance but I expect the Nimbus White to be even more revealing in that regard than the Daedalus Ulysses or King III esl.

The move to file playback has been rewarding and I'm comparing iTunes to Amarra with different speakers. I had some concern that the file playback might not be up to my requirement for review purposes, but all worries have evaporated; the file playback is superior to the Redbook, and this is noted especially in the timing; Redbook seems more lethargic, less energetic than file playback. Comparing the two Redbook seems more constrained, less vivid and zippy. I'm very pleased with the vibrancy of the file playback and feel nothing has been sacrificed in any respect of audiophile-grade sound.

Amarra seems to work exquisitely well with the omnidirectional King Sound King Tower. I also have widened the placement of the omni speakers by about 10" for each speaker; that's quite a large change, and the result is preferable.

That is something I have to do with the Nimbus White yet. All my exemplary results with the speaker were while using my "old" positioning scheme. Now that I'm widening the stance of the speakers I expect another level of perceived scale and depth to be discovered. I know you felt the positioning was a bit too close together at the time of the review, and now that I'm widening it for other speakers with superb results I'm sure it will be sensational with the Nimbus White as well. I was concerned about the interaction of the side walls of the room, but this has thankfully been a non-issue, likely because of my overbuilding the room such that the walls are less reactive compared to typical room construction.

douglas_schroeder February 18, 2014 11:12

Owner

A short drive for the ardent audiophile is anything less than two days. :) I recall driving a few times up to five hours one way for audio appointments either with dealers, manufacturers or private parties who were selling gear.

If you are interested in discussing a visit, Roscoeiii, feel free to contact me via the Agon message system.

douglas_schroeder February 10, 2014 07:21

Owner

Ryan, thank you for the kind words! Without giving too much away prior to publication of the review of the Nimbus White, you are correct that my continued use of it is validation of the efforts of Vapor Audio.

I was impressed by the ease and sound quality obtained from your laptop setup when we were setting up the Nimbus White for the review. This prompted me to finally take the plunge and go with file playback. The result has been glorious, better sound quality than I anticipated and convenience off the charts! I have been hearing rumors of specialty servers, such as Linux-based ones as the Antipodes, besting the Mac Mini setups. So, I would welcome the comparison.

douglas_schroeder February 09, 2014 06:31

Owner

Awww, man, Elescher, you're killin' me! I'm putting in inordinate amounts of time, etc. to set this up, and now you're saying it gets "blown away" by a box! This is exactly what I was afraid of - that after all the work some box would render it useless.

I would suspect that a large portion of the differential in sound would be due to the DAC which is used. I have had enough experiences with components that I believe the selection of the cables and DAC can tip the scale in my favor in terms of achieving the sound I want. (Time will tell if that is borne out) I am going to proceed under the assumption that as long as I have good files (lossless AIFF) I can assemble a USB DAC and Mini combo which will be exceptionally good. I have heard stunning demos at shows which use this method, or with PC laptop, so I know it can be done. There is always another avenue, another method.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled about all the investment of time in setting up the music database, but it's a necessary event if I want to even consider a server. If the Mac Mini gets trounced by some server box I'll use it as a regular computer somewhere else. But I'm a long way from that point right now... :)

douglas_schroeder January 20, 2014 12:33

Owner

Peter, that's good advice; thanks! I would suspect that different software packages will react uniquely with different file formats. I am ripping the discs to AIFF, and it seems there is some difference of opinion in the community whether this is the worse/same/better than WAV.

I know one thing, I do not wish to spend inordinate hours inputting metadata for discs, thus AIFF is the choice for now. Whether I convert to WAV later remains to be seen. My guess is that some software will mesh with AIFF better than others, so it makes sense to try a few. I don't know that I would conduct a full blown report on it (there's only so much time), but I'm quite sure I'll be experimenting. :)

douglas_schroeder January 19, 2014 11:20

Owner

System edited: Some significant changes recently, another set of speakers added. The Vapor Audio Nimbus White review was just finalized. They are a statement product and a real shocker performance-wise in the under $10K sector of speakers. I'm making the move to file playback via Mac Mini and Amarra; library being imported currently. The goal is to have this far exceed the Redbook playback. That may take some time, but I anticipate it will happen. I have been adjusting my positioning of the speakers in terms of width and believe I will keep the wider stance ongoing as this has been beneficial to the soundstage and imaging. Toe in is similar to the past but I'm getting better depth and definition to the images by moving speakers approx. 10" out from each other. This has been true of all dynamic speakers and the ESL. I have not tried the omnidirectional speakers in that wider position yet, but that will happen eventually.

douglas_schroeder January 18, 2014 11:17

Owner

Zephyr, it's been a wild six months (as usual). I tried posting updated pics but have had issues; I'll try again sometime.

I am working through component changes now. The Pathos Amps are gone after a long run, the longest I had owned a component ever. I'm re-tooling the entire rig as well as working with some marvelous gear for articles. I never take a step backwards in performance; there is no need to.

A very exciting(at least to me!) development happening recently, but I'm not going to discuss publicly yet.

douglas_schroeder November 25, 2013 10:49

Owner

Jc4659, In brief, yes, I have built a lot of good sounding rigs with Clarity Cables.

My apologies for tardy reply; Have you gotten to try them yet?

douglas_schroeder April 10, 2013 19:49

Owner

Somewhere along the line I'll get pics updated. There are some changes/additions lately, some to this system, some elsewhere.

One fun change was the switch in my family room rig to a new setup comprised of Sonos (that remained), the NuForce DDA-100 Integrated DAC, and a pair of King Sound Guitar speakers I sent home from CES. It's intended as a mega-fun rig and soooooo much more pleasing on the eyes than another box speaker. There are some inherent limitations on performance due to the nature of the DDA-100 and the cabinet of the speaker being in a guitar form. However, I'm very happy with this as a lifestyle rig. I'll likely post a pic of it at some point.

In the big rig I have added the Wells Audio Innamorata Amplifiers (reviewed for Dagogo.com) and am quite pleased with their performance to date. I've been using them with the Legacy Whisper DSW Clarity Edition and the results are everything I hoped for. I ran one Innamorata on several speaker systems, and based on the performance and experience in the past with use of two amps in passive biamp mode went with two of them, but have only used the pair with the Legacy's at this point.

The experience is so good that I do not want to break the rig down. However, it is a necessity and I'll likely move to the King Sound King III next to see what the Innamoratas do for them. Based on what these amps are doing for the Whisper I anticipate hearing the best ESL sound in my room to date. It's a very gratifying feeling that after many years of frustration, of trying desperately to achieve a sound I could glory in, I now have the capacity to build multiple rigs all of which are so satisfying that I do not want to disassemble them. The key to such satisfaction was the realization that I find far more delight in the variety of experience than chasing "the One," as though there is a perfect system. Variety in experiences in systems has been my best friend in audio for the past few years, and as far as I can see for the future as well.

It did take more time, more money and more effort than I expected to get this goal accomplished, but it has been well worth it!

I have three or four little experiments tangential to reviewing either running currently or on tap; plenty to discover. Anyone who has been in this hobby long enough knows that there is a cyclical nature to it, sometimes "up" and sometimes "down." I'm enjoying this up part of the cycle. :)

douglas_schroeder February 07, 2013 09:56

Owner

System edited: I am making some pleasing progress in the exploration of the Landscape Orientation of tower speakers. I secured custom Sound Anchor Stands which I had modified to incorporate amp stands in the design. Now I can place the amps closer to the speakers and use shorter speaker cables, which is held to improve sound. I am very pleased with Bob and the crew at Sound Anchors. They worked with me patiently to develop the right stand and the product is first rate. I had casters put on the stands to aid with mobility/placement. The stands allow for elevation of the speakers far higher, up to about 39" versus 27" with simple stands I tried previously. The also allow for forward or backward tilt of the front baffle. I now have complete control of the placement of the speakers used in Landscape orientation. The sound quality has improved markedly, so this has been a good venture. The use of speakers in Landscape orientation is as powerful an experience as hearing a large tower speaker or big panel; it is a worthy alternative which is simply stunning with live recordings.

douglas_schroeder December 02, 2012 20:43

Owner

Zephyr, I appreciate the encouragement. I will have comment upon the Aeris in my Dagogo.com show report of RMAF 2012. My overall impression is that it is a classic Bill Dudleston design. Bill works in the pro/domestic worlds and bleeds his design concepts over from one to the other.

Consequently, his speakers will be capable of more dynamic impact via active X-over for the bass than most big floor standers. The new twin element air motion tweeter is superb and elevates the performance radically. The past five years or so have seen big leaps in performance from Legacy speakers.

I have an article comming but it's a bit different than expected.

douglas_schroeder November 01, 2012 13:38

Owner

Barrysandy, I appreciate the feedback; I enjoy describing experiences so that others can benefit and perhaps be inspired to try new things. Anyone who has a manageable monitor should put it on the side to see what it sounds like. The experience can be quite informative and enjoyable.

I'm not quite done with the Landscape concept; there will be more to come! It's going to take another turn (Pun!), one which until a week ago I did not consider. It's surprising and very pleasing how far a concept can be taken with additional input. Thanks to an industry insider the concept has further to run. I'll be sharing it here in due time. Nothing too radical, but significant enough to merit pursuing. I expect a sizable performance improvement in the sound of the Ulysses.

I encourage people who have manageable tower speakers and stands, who have curiosity, to try the Landscape orientation. But, PLEASE read the article first. There are quite a number of WARNINGS associated with the unusual use of the speakers, warnings related to the awkwardness of the speaker on a stand and safety. The Landscape sound is quite the surprising experience! One of the most striking things about it is how utterly pristine the bass becomes when elevated off the floor. When you move the speakers higher and lose the floor bounce you will realize how much distortion and negative interaction with the floor one hears when the speakers are in normal Portrait orientation. I was shocked especially by the transformation of the bass quality when moving the Ulysses into Landscape mode. This would be true for the overwhelming majority of traditional towers with with the bass drivers near the floor.

The King Sound King Tower (Omnis) are a jewel which I am sad to see no longer available to audiophiles. Omnis have such a powerfully immersive quality to their soundstage that I would think many more casual listening audiophiles would love them. They do not have to be large form factor, and are quite endearing with exquisite openness.

I know some panel speaker owners place their speakers immediately flanking the listening chair, to the Left and Right of the chair on edge to the listener. This may to a degree simulate the experience of an Omni. I would guess that it might be like the ultimate headphone experience to put a pair of omnis in that arrangement! Next time I have them set up I may sit for a while in the center between them and see what happens to the soundstage.

There is no end to the creativity one can have with audio systems; one simply has to be open to trying novel things. However, I distinguish between quackery and novel alternative arrangements/systems.

douglas_schroeder October 30, 2012 19:54

Owner

System edited: It has been a rewarding few months, as approximately one year of effort has resulted in changes to three speaker systems; I recently had published at Dagogo.com my discussion of a recent alternative placement for the Daedalus Ulysses full range speaker; horizontal, or "Landscape" orientation. I am immensely enjoying the immersive character of the monstrously large and immersive soundstage. This is roughly equivalent of a large Panel experience on the horizontal axis, truly an exciting alternative to typical "Portrait" orientation of full range speakers. Having bided my time for the King Sound King III full range ESL it has arrived, and will not leave. I make some sweeping conclusions about the performance of this speaker relative to others in its price class in my review. The last of the big changes is by no means the least; the Legacy Whisper DSW has been upgraded to "Clarity Edition" by the replacement of all internal cabling to 10Ga. Clarity Cable, Clarity Caps, and the new Legacy Air Motion Tweeter system (tweeter and supertweeter). Owner's review forthcoming. There is an incredible amount of variety in the audiophile experience available through different technological applications, as the systems I build suggest.

douglas_schroeder October 23, 2012 11:44

Owner

Frank, no I haven not tried those particular amps with the Ayon players. The highest I reached on the rung of use in my room with Ayon players was the CD-5, and I have not used any of the amps you mention.

I will urge you to try at least three diffent ICs with the player, as these are critical. But perhaps you are a cable warrior and have had plenty of wire wars. :)

douglas_schroeder March 14, 2012 20:46

Owner

Zephyr, thanks; I think the big competition would have been between panel speakers and the King Tower. Especially in terms of soundstage the K.T. does some things even the Kingsound King ESL can't.

I am now double bi-wiring with four sets of speaker cables both of the modules on each speaker, and the results are splendid!

Glory, I think you're intending to speak with Doug Schneider; people occasionally mistake me for him.

douglas_schroeder March 11, 2012 20:29

Owner

Mapman, there is such a terrific satisfaction from the variety of sound possible that I would feel nearly impoverished if I didn't get involved in that technological variety. This is where the Quality/Quantity ratio is most critical. One only has so much disposable income, so obviously one can't "have it all" if not swimming in money. I find the additional factor of seeking an entourage of speakers at a set price level to add another dimension of skill to the task of system building - one which I relish.

What's great is that an audiophile/gear head can do this at nearly any level of investment in the hobby!

douglas_schroeder March 09, 2012 11:33

Owner

Oh, boy; I should have added so as to not cause consternation - the King Tower is not available in North America. The distributor, Performance Devices, has decided not to carry this model but to focus solely on ESL and ESL hybrid speakers. This may be the only pair in North America. In fact, the King Tower is no longer listed on the Kings Audio website, so it may have been discontinued, at least in N. America. I'm not sure if it is still available in other parts of the world.

My comments and experiences therefore will not be able to be duplicated, but will be helpful to those contemplating Omnidirectional speakers of different brands. There are transferrable lessons/insights from using a particular technology of speakers and that is what I wish to convey. My comments also do not constitute a formal review, but are owner's comments. I make no claims as to the speaker's ultimate performance, long term compatibility or reliability. With time I may have an unofficial opinion, but not at this time.

douglas_schroeder March 09, 2012 08:40

Owner

System edited: This week I added another dimension to my quest for variety in system development; I have acquired the Kingsound King Tower omnidirectional speakers. These are hybrid dynamic/ribbon speakers which fire vertically from the dynamic drivers and horizontally from the ribbon drivers. The tweeter is literally a "dome" of ribbons firing upward. The Omnidirectional dispersion is quite unique, requiring them to be placed well away from the walls. This is the most distant from the headwall I have positioned any speaker system. The distance from head wall to listening chair is nearly equidistant. The speakers are currently (perhaps not their final position) out approx. 1/3 the length of the room. I had heard the King Tower only once or twice, very briefly at shows. From that quick encounter I had to assess their potential quickly. I'm glad to say I feel vindicated, as these already are worth acquiring and hold tremendous potential going forward; every speaker system I acquire with time has been elevated in performance with time as I continue to build systems around them. The most striking thing about an Omni speaker is the vast acoustic envelope - yea, an enveloping envelope of sound - resting above the listener, like being under a canopy of sound. For those who crave an "immersive" experience they are far more so than any panel I've used or heard. Of course, the nature of the technology also inhibits; their greatest drawback is the lack of localization of images which would normally be pinned quite readily in the foreground of the soundstage. It's a bit like watching a 3D movie; unrealistic in many respects, but so big and 'larger than life' it's worth the mild effort to suspend reality to experience it. I have some friends who have been in bands and they are constantly sitting up tight to stereo speaker systems. They want to be in the performance. This technology does so better than any other I've used (short of an extreme near field listening position or headphones), which would be expected given the nature of it. I anticipate that I will have a far more well developed expression of this speaker system in the years ahead as it is used with several systems. For now it's pure fun! It is also confirmation that I'm in the right zone for me as an audiophile. I have heard/demoed and owned some fantastic speakers. I cannot imagine any one speaker system regardless of price satisfying my longings for radically different expression of music via systems. There is simply too much difference between a panel, dynamic, horn or Omni to experience, and I do not want to be bereft of any of those experiences. I would far rather work to build a stable of competent speakers than put all my bucks into one speaker system and be deprived of the variety which cannot be obtained through ownership of one set. Obviously, people's tastes will differ, and realistic limitations apply; it's hard to accumulate even affordable speakers when you simply don't have room or WAF must be taken into consideration. But barring those factors pursuit of the glory of audio via a multi-faceted system building approach is wonderfully fulfilling. It took me about 15 years of seeking "the one" to realize there was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - there is no one speaker which "does it all." Once I accepted that and branched out to new technologies my satisfaction has been higher than ever before. I strongly encourage gearheads to explore this "road less traveled" for a journey of immense fulfilment!

douglas_schroeder March 09, 2012 08:32

Owner

I now have an entire listing of Opamps from Cimmaron Technology for the Minimax DAC Plus, which I will post at AA and Agon.

Here is what I'm posting regarding rolling the Opamps in this unit.

Phil from Cimmaron Technology sent me a list of approved Opamps for
respective positions on the board of the EE Minimax DAC Plus; prices
include the Brown Dog Adapters provided by Cimmaron. I have been using
in the U1/U2 position the OPA2604 and in the U6/U7 position the OPA827.
I have not Opamp rolled this unit much, as I have been busied with other
components for review. I attest that the DAC Plus in SS output with the
tube removed and these opamps is sensational.

(NOTE CAREFULLY the warning at the bottom NOT to use the AD 8620 in the U1/U2 positions!) Also note that the positioning of the opamps/adapter is always with the small square solder point on the topside of the Opamp at the upper right hand when the unit is facing the installer. Finally, it is recommended that an opamp extraction tool and an anti-static device be used when removing/installing Opamps.

Is it "worth it"? YES! YES! YES! :)

RECOMMENDATIONS OF OPAMPS FROM CIMMARON TECHNOLOGY:
For U1/U2
Single-channel op-amps mounted on the 020302 SO8-to-DIP8 single-to-dual
channel adapter:
qty 2 each required

020302-OPA627 $48.00 x 2 = $96.00
020302-OPA827 $38.00 x 2 = $76.00
020302-AD797B $48.00 x 2 = $96.00

. . . also for U1/U2
Dual-channel op-amps mounted on the 970601A SO8-to-DIP8 adapter
qty 2 each required

970601A-AD8620 $23.00 x 2 = $46.00
970601A-OPA2604 $13.00 x 2 = $26.00
970601A-OPA2134 $10.00 x 2 = $20.00

For U6/U7
Single-channel op-amps mounted on the 970601A SO8-to-DIP8 adapter
qty 2 each required

970601A-OPA627 $28.00 x 2 = $56.00
970601A-OPA827 $23.00 x 2 = $46.00
970601A-AD797B $23.00 x 2 = $46.00

The AD 8620 should not be used in the DAC PLUS.
"On some forum there was a suggestion to use the AD8620. for positions U1
and U2. While this is a dual op-amp, it is only rated to use up to
plus/minus 13 volts. The circuit in the EE Mini Max DAC and DAC Plus is
plus/minus 15 volts."

douglas_schroeder January 24, 2012 12:30

Owner

Zephyr, a joyous and Blessed New Year to you as well!

2012 has started out with a very dangerous experience; the kind which threatens a system builder's vision for the future. I have just in the past week assembled a rig so good that it emotionally seems as though it is at the top of the hill, the kind which when I hear it I think, "It doesn't get better than this..."

The reason I say that's a dangerous experience is because that smug satisfaction is what kills the drive to excel, to continue seeking future fantastic rigs. I often say that the greatest impediment to developing an audiophile system is the audiophile, and that is one big reason why; most people conclude that the sound they have is so good that it just cannot get much better. That is SO wrong! Thankfully, I've been through enough levels of change and improvement that I no longer believe it.

But, for the time being, it is safe to say that my rig is the best it has ever been. The key was Opamp rolling the EE Minimax DAC Plus; the potency of that change makes almost every other tweak I've done seem like child's play. I had an exhilarating two hour listening session last night. The music with this rig has been more emotionally gripping than I can recall in a while.

I can't say it enough; ownership of more than one technology in speakers has been crucial to a far richer experience and satisfaction level in audiophilia for me. I believe I am of such a nature that no one speaker would ever quench my thirst for experiences musically. For a hobby which owes so much to technology I believe that widening one's capacity to swap out technologies in audio systems gets short shrift. Even if a person has less space and would work with two different bookself speakers the reward is immense. It also helps dispel the myth that there's one speaker which can do it all.

In terms of the future, I anticipate some interesting experiences up ahead. :)

douglas_schroeder January 23, 2012 11:07

Owner

Regarding Opamp rolling the EE Minimax DAC Plus; NOTE: I have been in contact with Morningstar Audio about the opamps used for the Plus version; It is not acceptable to simply use any of the opamps which worked for the original version.

I mentioned the LME49990 but this opamp is not suitable for the Plus version of the Minimax DAC. I am seeking a listing of appropriate Opamps for the Plus version and will post it when it is available.

douglas_schroeder December 23, 2011 10:12

Owner

To keep current I should list that I have Opamp rolled the EE Minimax DAC Plus. I used one of the "finalist" sets of Opamps from when I rolled the original unit for the Audio Blast article on the same subject.

By Opamp rolling the same fantastic - and I DO mean fantastic - results were obtained as with the original unit. I think this may be the most profound economical upgrade/tweak I've ever encountered. To my ear the benefit is more than what is achieved with treating CDs or tube rolling, and as powerful as swapping an entire suite of cables. That is an incredible boost for under $100(and in some cases well under $100)!

It seems the circuit board layout of the Plus version is similar to the original, at least in respect to the Opamps. It appears the doubles can still be put in U1/U2 sockets and the singles in U6/U7 sockets. I am using the dual 8620's in the U1/U2 positions and the single 827's in the U6/U7 positions. A gentleman with moniker "Gianc" here at the Gon has used dual OPA2604 for U1/U2 and the AD797 singles for U6/U7. Frankly, it might even be better. It would be interesting to try the dual and single LME49990's at their respective positions. This is truly a tweaker's dream! None of the vaugeness which goes on so many times with ineffective changes.

Finally, I am running the unit currently without any tube in it! Obviously, SS output is mandatory. I think if I were forced to return to the digital sound I had two years ago I would likely be frustrated as it was far less refined.

douglas_schroeder December 20, 2011 21:12

Owner

System edited: I have updated the component listing to reflect the replacement of the EE Minimax DAC with the updated Minimax DAC Plus. The new model represents a sea change in quality and is worthy of use with extremely high end rigs. I unreservedly recommend the upgrade from the first model. Since my Audio Blast article on Dagogo.com I have discovered that when used with the tube output on systems using active crossovers there may be introduced more tube distortion than desired. With the Legacy Whisper DSW speaker system in active X-over mode far more clarity and precision is experienced when using SS output. With most speakers (with passive x-over) I have been using the Tube output with the Siemens silver plate 12AU7, but when using the DAC with active x-over I find SS output superior.

douglas_schroeder November 09, 2011 20:04

Owner

Kiwi, nice of you to respond to my ruminations. Your thoughts confirm my experiences regarding ownership of multiple speakers.

Concerning the causes of the surprise/enjoyment of switching around speakers I tend to think that listening level differences and "time delay" between setup of the different speaker would not come into play significantly. The changes to me seem far too extreme to credit those effects.

The factor which i think may play into it is the third one you mention - bias. That I believe describes the similar phenomenon I have discussed, the expectation that the new speaker will somehow characterize the one just moved out of the way. It's like we get our acoustic memory set and when something changes too radically it rebels temporarily until it has time to accept the new acoustic paradigm.

What's interesting is that with enough time the newness wears off and it becomes "normal" to our ears. It's only when the other product enters the scene again that we remember just how radically different it is. After you've been through it a few times it's not so much shock as admiration.

Got to get to bed; get up at 5 a.m. to play basketball tomorrow!

douglas_schroeder September 01, 2011 21:01

Owner

I neglected to mention that revisiting the positioning of the speakers was not a result of attempting to fix a perceived problem, but rather due to the sharing of experiences and preferences of different audiophiles. This is one good side effect of inviting others to hear one's rig; you get a fresh take on what the system is doing and how others perceive it.

Some of the best advances in my personal journey of audiophilia have been as a result of comments and insights that others have shared, which have opened up my thinking to see/hear things afresh. Even persons who seem to hear things quite differently and set up their rigs in a fashion which seems inscrutable can have some keen insights which can be beneficial. :)

douglas_schroeder July 28, 2011 09:33

Owner

I have had some interesting experiences recently in regards to assessment of my system's depth of soundstage. Consequently, I have repositioned the speakers with less toe in to achieve a more shallow soundstage.

I typically have spent quite a bit of time developing a very focused center image, even though that image has resided several feet deeper than some of the L/R channel information. I have chosen that in preference to losing some of the crispness of the center image by toeing outward or running speakers absolutely parallel to the head wall.

Recently I have had some musicians and professionals from the industry in who have tended to sit much closer, more near field, than I typically do. As I have discussed this with them they have stated that the imaging means much less to them than the tonality and dynamics. One drummer moved quite close to the Kingsound King spekaers such that he was trying to get the "immersive" feel of being within the band, just like when he was drumming.

All of this discussion caused me to open myself up again to the possibility of repositioning the speakers. After weeks of experimenting, they have been moved, all of about 1.5", keeping the outer leg stationary and swinging the inside edge of the speaker toward the listening position. This is a fair bit in terms of what it does to the soundstage and phantom image; when rigs get fine tuned every inch becomes a mile. The system has lost a hair of precision in the center but has gained a lot in terms of moving the performer(s) in the center closer and thickening them up a bit. The bass has not suffered much from this, even though the bass drivers are now directed slightly away from my respective L/R ears. Again, I hear a bit less definition but not enough to cause abandonment of the positioning. There is no "right" or "wrong" in this, just preference. The input of industry professionals and musicians have changed my preference slightly.

However, I do not agree with the viewpoint that imaging is nothing, that the only thing that really counts is tonality. I still demand a highly focused image and would not be happy at all if I sensed the soundstage was getting sloppy. My compromise to move the phantom image closer by turning out the speakers a bit more only goes so far. The changes are not sweeping, but I am finding the repositioning to be positive at this point.

Over time I have had occasion to make another observation relating to perceived "break in" and my adjusting to the sound of components/speakers/cables. As I continuously work with these two radically different speaker systems, both of which I am quite familiar now, I still find that it takes a few days to readjust to the sound when I switch between them. Initially the sound is quite poor/alien to my ears, as I've been accustomed to the other technology. But as I'm immersed more in the listening the perception of the sound changes dramatically. The first time or two I swapped out the speakers was shocked and worried over what I perceived to be terrible sound. But after two days or so my mind/ears adapted to the different technology and character of the speakers. Within a week I was thinking, "This is fantastic sounding!" What's amazing is that given the time to adapt both speakers sound incredibly natural. They both have intrinsic qualities which capture the essence of live music.

Even after switching out the speakers several times and being aware of it I still go through this cycle, which reinforces for me the belief that it is not so much component break in but my ears adapting to the sound, familiarizing myself with it that changes over time. I no longer have worry over the quality/nature of the sound of each speaker; I know very well what they are capable of. Yet, still, my ears have to sync again with how radically different the sound is whenever I switch. But, again, within a week I'm back to euphoria again.

One interesting side effect is that I seem to be in love with whichever speaker is running. After I've re-familiarized myself to it, I think, it's the better of the two. Then I switch back to the one which has been sitting idle and shortly thereafter think the exact same thought. I take this as a sign that I have speakers complementary to my ears and how I perceive music should naturally sound.

It would be interesting to hear from others whether they have similar experiences when using multiple pairs of speakers.

douglas_schroeder July 28, 2011 09:23

Owner

The Clarity Cable digital is the best I have used.

douglas_schroeder May 11, 2011 16:57

Owner

A noteworthy improvement in sound which is invisible, I rolled Opamps in the Eastern Electric Minimax DAC. I was quite surprised by the powerful influence of these devices; they improved the sound quality of the system by an order of magnitude commensurate with that of a component change (See my Audio Blast articles on the EE DAC and Opamp rolling).

The Minimax (reviewed) has gone in my mind from being a great bargain component to being a fantastic component regardless of price. I would not hesitate to recommend an Opamp enhanced Minimax to anyone with a rig under $100k.

Digital cable is critical to attain the maximum from the Mmax DAC. I have been using a new version of the Clarity Cable Organic Digital to much success (review on Clarity Organic/Vortex products forthcoming).

I urge anyone who owns an EE Minimax to do some form of Opamp rolling, as the unit can be taken to much greater heights of performance than the stock version.

I am increasingly finding it difficult to nitpick the system, whether using the Kingsound King or Legacy Whisper DSW speakers. It has taken a year or two of work to get to that point. Enthusiasts should know that building the ideal rig takes dogged determination and experimentation. The rewards are considerable.

Case in point, the Whisper DSW operating in active X-over mode with the Pathos Classic One MkIII integrateds has been highly rewarding. I am quite pleased with how the beauty of these amps becomes leveraged by active x-over. Likewise, the Cambridge Audio Azur 840W amp is much more powerful when used on the bass with an active X-over than on a traditional passive x-over inside a speaker. The ultra-clean nature of the Azur gains in terms of macrodynamics to yield very clean subwoofer-like bass.

The active x-over experiement/review and Opamp rolling the EE DAC has been a success; I'm elated I looked into these things.

I would very much like to hear how things go for others who have the Minimax DAC and will roll Opamps. I would be interested in which transports you are using as well as Digital cables (S/PDIF).

douglas_schroeder March 30, 2011 20:05

Owner

Brownsanandy, Nice to hear from you. Alas, no I do not have any Chapman speakers left. I was going to hang on to one pair of T-7's but several things conspired to let them go. They were in my third system and taking up a bit much of the family room - wife let me know that politely from time to time (I can do whatever I wish with my room, but the living room she has a lot of say about), I was working on putting funds toward the reference speakers in the listening room, and a guy I knew who had bought the wild looking Canary Zama speakers I had sold him blew them out completely by hooking up his power amp wrong after moving the system in the room. He was devastated and had no money to get a nice set of speakers again, so I gave him a good price on the T-7's. I just wasn't using that system; might listen to it about twice a year, so the Chapmans were just being unused. Now he's enjoying them, doing a lot of HT.

You're going to have a hard time finding Chapman speakers used. Everyone knows how good they are, so they are snapped up in a hurry. Another option from a slightly different angle is the Eminent Technology LFT-8A or 8B. It's a very good value used and has quite respectable sound, given its physical limitations, i.e. 8" bass driver. I happened across a pair of LFT-6 speakers a few years ago and put a couple of HSU subs with them for a great result in a secondary rig.

douglas_schroeder March 08, 2011 14:58

Owner

There has been a great deal of experimentation and informal testing going on in my system lately. Some pretty radical and surprising changes/improvements to system performance have been taking place. I am working toward the end of the evaluation phase and will be writing up the results for the world to see. The past few weeks have been quite an adventure, one of the more fascinating periods in audiophilia in terms of learning and experimenting with gear.

douglas_schroeder February 06, 2011 22:51

Owner

Cbd0815, that's terrific! If you do not have the time/desire to conduct the remodel yourself, then you are wise to have pros with experience in HT/Sound rooms doing it. I hope it turns out exactly as you wish.

If the room is done well you can have some fairly large speakers running without problems. The Whisper DSW sounds tremendous in my room. I'm very happy I have not let convention dictate what size speaker I use. The room is direclty involved in that freedom to move to a bigger speaker.

douglas_schroeder January 01, 2011 21:20

Owner

Starting the year out right with a good workout this morning at 7 a.m. and an upgrade! The workout was much more onerous than the upgrade.

The upgrade consisted of popping in four new Opamps into the Eastern Electric Minimax DAC; total cost under $20. Painful, huh? The result was an expansion of soundstage and far better clarity than the stock Opamps provided; a huge benefit for nearly no cost. I am unimpressed by a great number of tweaks, as they give marginal benefit. This, however, is what I call a good tweak which easily passes my Law of Efficacy! The result was experientially like moving from mid-hall listening to an orchestra to being near the front row. There is a tremendous improvement in palpability of the event and is much more involving.

I will have more to say about Opamp rolling soon, including my directions for this tweak for those with the EE DAC (which I reviewed on Dagogo.com).

douglas_schroeder January 01, 2011 08:49

Owner

Cbd0815, no problem; the dimensions are 13'x23'x7.5', which makes it intimate, but not tiny. Earlier in this thread I shared about some of my construction techniques.

Were you perhaps considering building a dedicated room?

douglas_schroeder December 17, 2010 10:35

Owner

System edited: I have determined that the proper time has come to move into the "All Out Assault" category. In the past I have reserved myself from doing so, though I have been nearly maniacal over audio for decades, designed and built my dedicated audio room years ago and have undergone numerous upgrades in the meantime. The latest development is quite exciting, a new reference dynamic hybrid speaker; this is the first of its kind in the world - the Legacy Audio Whisper DSW! It was a concept speaker I discussed with Legacy Audio, which they built and is available as an option for the Whisper speaker. I have been impatiently waiting to reveal it to all. A fresh off the press review (at least part I of three) resides at Dagogo.com for your entertainment and enlightenment. For fun, take a look at the wiring configuration of the picture of the Pathos amps! It looks to be a mess, but it is quite correct and is due to the unique nature of the speaker. The past several months refining the performance of the DSW has been pure pleasure, some of the grandest times in audio I have experienced. A couple years ago I gave up. I simply quit chasing "the one", the one speaker which supposedly was the Holy Grail, the one speaker which would forever satisfy. Due to the advancement of technology and my enless need to hear new sound, I realized that for me it does not exist. I am far more satisfied with a beautiful expression of a wider variety of sound than can be had from just one speaker. Thus, I pursued what I feel are two beautiful expressions - speakers - of those technologies I prefer. I have been quite pleased with that decision. My assault on the summit of satisfaction has gone quite well! Thank you for sharing in this by reading about these blessings.

douglas_schroeder November 12, 2010 20:23

Owner

Zephyr, the Focus SE is a very good speaker. I'm looking forward to posting new pics; my son got a new camera, and when my current articles are done I'll post new system update pics.

douglas_schroeder August 23, 2010 20:05

Owner

I've been working with 32 bit processing lately. Can't say too much about it now, but I urge those who cannot get enough of the detail, clarity, openness etc. to look into it. It's astounding with the Kingsound King. 32 bit can get you closer to SOTA sound in a hurry. BIG :)

Haven't tried the 32 bit yet with the dynamic speakers, but I anticipate seriously great improvements. Way, WAY beyond slight improvement. I am going to spend a lot of time exploring this!

douglas_schroeder August 23, 2010 07:37

Owner

On a different note, Pettyfeversk's system entitled "Forever Done, Never Done" was just upgraded with the Ayon CD-5. He and I talked quite a bit via phone about his moving from the CD-2 to the CD-5. He had a lot of concern that the upgrade would be worth it. I think he's elated, and he is running the player direct to recently acquired Pass Labs amp. We had quite the time discussing influences of various cabling schemes.

I'm amazed on a weekly basis how important/effective different cabling is in the establishment of superior rigs. I have come to learn through the years that one simply cannot claim to have established their best rig if they have not worked seriously with the cabling. It has paid handsome benefits over time. Getting the cabling "right" is every bit as critical as selecting the proper components or speakers.

Also, I'm working with some new amps which are escalating the performance of the King speakers to much greater heights. Full story in due time. :)

douglas_schroeder May 19, 2010 08:33

Owner

Zephyr, Those who say the Whisper comes closer to a panel speaker are quite right. The primary reason is due to the use of planar elements for the mid/high drivers. The Focus also uses the same 4" planar mid driver and 1" Neo-ribbon tweeter. Also, fairly obviously, since the Whisper is an open baffle design, the lack of cabinet colorations will make it more akin to a panel speaker.

Even though it uses a cabinet, I find many things about the sound of the Focus SE's upper/top end reminiscent of other panel speakers. There have been times that the mid/upper end sound between the Focus SE and the King have been "cut from the same cloth", with surprisingly similar elements. There are distinctions between the drivers, but enough similarities that one can definitely tell they are both "planar sound" as opposed to a dynamic driver complement.

There was a thread not long ago asking panel speaker lovers what their alternative dynamic speaker was. For me, much of the time it's my "other" panel, the hybrid Legacy.

douglas_schroeder May 15, 2010 14:01

Owner

Zephyr, yes, I keep getting a bit more out of the Focus SE's every time I set them up. I'm always trying new cables with different amps. I really enjoy the openness of planar mid and ribbon tweeters; gives the speaker a great "vastness" to the soundstage. I seem to gravitate toward the panel sound, and I'm having a good 'ol time with the SE and the King. I've had more satisfaction in audio since these have been here than ever before. Owning a good dynamic speaker and panel speaker is a totally different ball game as an audiophile. I strongly suggest that those who never can find contentment in any one speaker assess whether they are torn between technologies. If so, then if possible they should pursue two sets of speakers appropriate to their income, and they will likely have far more enjoyment of the hobby.

douglas_schroeder May 05, 2010 17:42

Owner

Frankpiet, I'm sorry I cannot (yet; who knows what I will review in upcoming months?) give you a direct assessment of the CD-5 as compared to these others. If you have read my review on Dagogo.com you will see that I rate the CD-5 exceptionally high in comparison to the CD-2.

I have heard these other players in several different systems at shows. I can only say that I felt the quality of the Redbook performance in systems with the CD-5 was competitive with them. It's difficult to say definitively, as the components and speakers were all different. I would have loved to hear the CD-5 in any number of rigs at the shows.

You may also want to consider the new Ayon Skylla DAC, as you could try whatever transport you wish with it. That might be a nice solution. However, I find the tube pre function of the CD-5 to be quite good and the elimination of the preamp with proper cabling to an amp is extremely desirable. I am spending a lot of time running the player direct into various amps.

For me the Gain feature is the big advantage with the CD-5. I spend a fair bit of time on that in the article. There was a guy whom I've been talking with. He upgraded from the CD-2 to the CD-5. He had all kinds of concerns about, "will it be that much better?" I kept telling him Yes! He got it and found out for himself it's in a different league than the CD-2. (You know Ayon's coming out with CD-2S; I think it's showing in Munich)

If you do the CD-5 I strongly encourage serious experimentation with cables, because the CD-5 is quite responsive to it. You can tune the rig beautifully with the right cables (to your ears).

Hope this helps.

douglas_schroeder May 05, 2010 17:32

Owner

Zephyr, I'm elated for you that you are enthralled by the SE! It's an exciting speaker to hear. You will get them dialed in even better over time, so the enjoyment has just begun. :)

douglas_schroeder March 18, 2010 19:26

Owner

System edited: I finally get to brag about the odd front end and amplification I just recently discovered. I have been enthralled by the combo of the Ayon CD-5 player/preamp and the Peachtree Audio Nova integrated/DAC. These two with the Kingsound King speakers are simply sensational. The Gain switch on the CD-5 does exactly as I stated in my review; it pumps up the performance of lowly amps to herculean levels. The 80 or so Watt Nova sounds like a 400wpc amp with the King speakers. It's a mental disconnect to see this tiny integrated getting voluminous, powerful sound out of the King. Three weeks on listening to it and I'm still shaking my head from wonder. I wrote about it in an unsolicited article, an Audio Blast, just published today on Dagogo.com This hobby is so amazing, there is a surprise around every corner! People wonder if we've hit the end of the road for Hifi? Not even close; we've got an unlimited amount of growth technologically and personally. I see no end in sight. As nano-tech gets applied in ever wider circles I think audio also will be influenced broadly. The Kingsound King is already the beneficiary of nano-tech on the coating of the driver membranes. The results are quite impressive. The systems of the future will make our current ones seem wretched in comparison.

douglas_schroeder March 16, 2010 22:12

Owner

Well... Ayon also has the Skylla DAC, so maybe that's an option.

douglas_schroeder March 14, 2010 12:38

Owner

Zephyr, I was remiss in not mentioning that I reviewed the CD-5; that's how it became my reference. The article should cover the basic questions you may have. I have been experimenting beyond the scope of the system in the article, and have found some wonderful new combinations of gear, which will be discussed in an article to be published mid-month. I'm having a ton of fun with this equipment!

The King is rising to the top in terms of audio show reports. I had said in my previous show reports that it was not being shown in its best light. That is beginning to change with the Florida show; the speaker was shown this time with the VAC Royal power supply and Cardas cabling, so it's no surprise to me that it was mentioned as one of best sounds of Axpona (I believe by Stereophile online). However, I'm finding ways with the Ayon CD-5 to extract even more extreme performance from it, in very unexpected ways.

I have spent considerable time also with the Legacy Focus SE and the CD-5; this too, is a killer combo. Legacy and Ayon sounds very good together, and this is why I continue to pair them in my own use. The bottom line is the CD-5 is a different creature than most cdp's. Consequently it can shift the playing field (pardon the pun!) in very decisive ways. I'll have an example of that in an unexpectedly different rig I've written about to be published mid-month, just a few days away.

douglas_schroeder March 13, 2010 21:29

Owner

System edited: It's been an exciting time lately! I have added a pic of my new reference source, the Ayon CD-5 player/preamp. It is quite unique, with a powerful feature in the Gain switch. This allows it to be used with low powered amps and less efficient speakers. The effect is like taking a sub-100wpc amp and turning it into a 300wpc monster. It's a "game changer" and has opened up new vistas in equipment pairing for system building. It is breaking new ground for sources. I will have a very surprising, fun new amplification addition, which I will show in a few days.

douglas_schroeder March 12, 2010 06:23

Owner

Tim, I can't honestly tell you how many discreet systems I've built in the past four years alone. Dozens literally. If you see a two channel component, I've probably had it in no less than three or four rigs. Some components I'll have in a dozen rigs or more, such as the speakers.

Building systems is as exciting for me as listening. Every system can be improved, and the results of constructing a system can be very surprising. One of the greatest of the many joys of audio is that there is no ceiling on what's possible. I've blown through at least 5 perceived "performance ceilings" since being in this room. There's always a new system which can best what's currently in use. Technolgical advance assures it. That's part of the excitement and joy of this hobby for me.

I see you've got the big KEF's; I was this close (hold fingers very tightly) to approaching them for a review. I bet they sound very good. :)

douglas_schroeder February 23, 2010 18:21

Owner

Zephyr, I think you're going to be very pleased with the decision to upgrade. The Focus SE is an incredible speaker. I have likened it to a poor man's Wilson Maxx 3, a speaker I very much have enjoyed at the shows. If anything my admiration for the design has grown over time.

Following review I now have made the Ayon CD-5 my reference Redbook player. This past week I set up one of my standard favorite systems; CD-5 direct to the Pathos Classic One MKIII integrateds as monoblocks, and the Focus SE speakers. The Ayon player is quite special and draws out a fantastic amount of high end performance from the Pathi and Focus SE. The CD-5's Gain feature is remarkable in that it allows amps like the Pathos to really shine; lower powered amps are given a big boost in performance from this player. The Gain settings on the player are so powerful that I have not yet had an amp which I use the High setting. With the Kingsound King ESL I use the Low setting, even though it has a difficult impedance curve.

Ayon and Legacy have been showing together at RMAF and CES. I continue to hear very good things from them in my room. I also am quite pleased with the performance of the CD-5 with the King speakers. I have had audiophile friends over who have heard both the Focus SE and the King in the same day. I ask them which would they choose if they could have only one. They have a difficult time deciding, as both are impressive sounding. I have felt that they are commensurate in terms of quality of sound, only differing technologies.
If the SE is good enough to cause people to struggle between it and the King, that says very good things about the Focus SE.

I think you'll be very happy about the upgrade to the SE. You should not expect an entirely "other" sound to the speaker, as it employs the same drivers. You should hear very quickly the advantage of having the drivers matched to +/- .25 dB. Also the more delicate high end with the silver wiring on the tweeter. I really enjoyed the HD version, but I've not pined for it at all since moving to the SE. I also haven't felt the need for subwoofers with the prodigious output of the SE. You'll also notice a cleaner bottom end with the SE. I think you'll be very happy, as the SE is a more refined speaker and gets you a fair bit closer to the summit of performance in big dynamic speakers.

douglas_schroeder February 19, 2010 07:06

Owner

Zephyr, Nice to hear from you; I see you've got your Focus HD's sitting pretty! I'll bet they sound pretty fantastic as well. :) I was on the new Legacy site only briefly.

I enjoy both the Focus SE and the King. Though they are of differing technologies, I find them equally satisfying. Owning radically different speakers has put salve on an audiophile itch I've had for a very long time. I have been pleased with how good the Pathi sound on both speakers, even though they have such different characteristics.

douglas_schroeder November 03, 2009 15:36

Owner

Mitch, I have not had the Whispers in my room; the pics are of the Helix, the flagship model from Legacy Audio. The Helix is a ton of speaker (felt like a ton moving them down the stairs!) and was a phenomenal speaker to reivew. I could not afford the price of the speakers, three sets of cables, and triple the amplification costs, so they had to be returned. In addition, having an active speaker with triple the needs for cables and amplification would be difficult for use in reviewing, as many manufacturers/distributors would balk at sending out three of the required item (I know, I tried). The Helix would likely sit much of the time rather than be enjoyed. For those reasons I had to pass on it. It certainly was not an issue of sound or desire to own it. If I were an audiophile with the means and the lack of constraints on daily usage, they would never have left the room.

I elected to obtain the Focus SE, as at the time it had better low end than the Whisper. Now, however, at RMAF just days ago, I heard the improved Whisper with upgraded bass drivers. The shallow low end has been extended and now it strikes my ear as a "little Helix", quite formidable.

douglas_schroeder October 11, 2009 06:44

Owner

Mitch, a very good question, as one might assume they were mounted "normally", but they are not. The mid-surrounds are mounted in the traditional position of the speaker wire leads coming out from the bottom of the speakers and into the receptacles built there for the feed to the surrounds.

Conversely, the rear MGMW's are inverted, because I wanted to mount them closer to the ceiling, and did not want unsightly receptacles in the middle of the wall. Therefore, I flipped the speakers (which of course, has no effect on the sound), and ran the leads from the speakers into receptacles placed near the room's ceiling. Worked beautifully! I'm very happy with the result.

The surround speakers are "hinged" thus allowing them to be swiveled to any position I determine. If I want a more diffused spatial effect, I place them edge on, or directly perpendicular to the wall. If I want a more visceral, solid effect with improved bass/presence I tuck them closer to the wall, which is where I now have them. In addition to allowing for this change in sound quality, the swiveling feature allows for more generous options in placement of the listening chair and HT seating.

The one thing which must be watched if one flips the MGMW is that the "cotter pin" holding them in their bracket is not held fast permanently. If one moves them back and forth, the pin can work loose - remember, this is supposed to be the top pin, held in by gravity. I do not move them much at all, and the pin stays put. If the pin were to fall out from moving about the speaker could potentially fall. I found the pin to stay put well, and I've had them in place for four years with no slippage of the pin. This is simply a "be forewarned" disclaimer. One could certainly put a bit of blue tack or similar on the head of the pin to hold it in place if it slips easily. Or, if one is paranoid, mount the speaker upright.

I did not put much $ into the HT portion of the room, as I listen to music the vast majority of the time; I see a movie in the room about once very six weeks. Some might consider that a waste of the room, however it was built for high end two channel and it's used constantly for that purpose. I am very happy with the MGMW's in their assigned role as surrounds. However, I am also thrilled to have moved to the Kingsound Kings for main panel speakers. They were not displayed terribly well at this year's RMAF; they sound far better when bi-wired and with an upgraded power supply. I am using Kevin Hayes' "Royal Power Supply", as I have dubbed it, from VAC. I used to be partial to the magnetic planar sound, but in the past five years it seems the technology of ESL speakers has improved to the point that my allegiance is shifting.

douglas_schroeder October 08, 2009 10:07

Owner

Dennis, certainly a pleasure to meet you and share the RMAF experience. I'll bet the Dartzeel and Legacy combo sounds great! Each generation of Legacy products keeps getting dramatically better. I heard the very recently updated Whisper speakers, with new bass drivers allowing for extended LF, and I was impressed.

douglas_schroeder October 07, 2009 17:56

Owner

Forgot to mention, I picked up the Cambridge Audio Azur 840E Preamp and 840W amps as backups, alternative equipment for some rigs.

The Azur amps are strikingly good; I use them in Bi-Amp Mono mode (four channels of 300wpc) going to the King speakers. This is a good way to get excellent results in a more affordable manner trying to purchase speakers and amps. I have been running source (with level control built in!) direct to the amps. This is an extremely potent, clean and affordable way to run the exquisite King ESLs!

It should be noted that from my understanding the Azur amps only take XLR/Balanced cables when in Bi-Amp Mono or Bridged Mono mode. So, having a source with both level control built in and XLR outs is necessary to accomplish this with the Azur amps. The Pathos integrateds do have both XLR and RCA inputs.

douglas_schroeder September 04, 2009 07:30

Owner

System edited: A very exciting day for me, as I can show what I've been working on the past several months - the Kingsound King review. A stunning speaker, which has taken up permanent residence in my home (Full review published today on Dagogo.com). I have been running the King with custom power supplies from Kevin Hayes at VAC. I will save the descriptive applause for my article. I also have made a marvelous upgrade to the Legacy Focus, moving to the SE version. This, too, is an outstanding speaker. I'm finding my own particular audio consilience between dynamic and planar speakers. It seems my ear enjoys the openness and speed of the planar Mid/Treble. Now, I have two "flavors" of it, both of which I find tremendously satisfying. The "Guess the speaker," contest is officially over, with no winners. No one takes home the million dollar prize. Pity. ;) The Pathos Classic One integrateds have been upgraded to MkIII version. These continue to be all around strong performers with all manner of gear. They sound equally impressive with the Focus SE or the King.

douglas_schroeder September 01, 2009 08:19

Owner

Zephyr, I was not all that surprised no one guessed the speakers entitled, "No One Guessed"; they are Canary Audio "Zama" speakers. Quite the esoteric model. They had a very unique blend of qualities - nearly full range, yet very high efficiency, with crystal clear mids. However, the mids were a bit restricted in frequency from coming through such a small pair of drivers. Consequently, the speaker did not have as much coherence as most I work with now.

I enjoyed them, but proceeded to sell them to an acquaintance. He adored them, but when he tried to move his equipment rack he made a boo-boo and hooked up the leads wrong (he should have called me to do it). The result was that he blew out the entire left side of his sytem, multi-channel amp, subwoofer, and of course the rare and virtually impossible to repair Zama's. So, they are now defunct. It hurts to see such an unusual and beautiful speaker damaged. :(

The Focus SE's are an excellent speaker; I have been enjoying them thoroughly, and it was an excellent move to switch to them from the HD's. However, due to a scintillating newer Planar arrival (on review; sorry, can't divulge yet) they have been sitting for the moment. Because the SE's use a planar mid and neo-ribbon tweet they sound remarkably similar in mids/highs to the big planar. The key difference is the "wall of sound" much larger soundstage with the planar vs. the point source of the small 4" mid and 1" tweet of the SE. I find both to be capable of very good performance.

What I'm learning is that my conception of great sound in mids and highs leans toward the magnetic planar/ribbon/ESL end, even when working with a dynamic speaker (the Focus SE is a hybrid planar/dynamic). The very enjoyable aspect of this is that the larger planar gives me the expansive soundstage - the classic "wall of sound", while the smaller planar elements of the SE yield the more focused/point source type of sound. Neither sound can be identically replicated by the other. I enjoy both immensely, and I do not care to be without one or the other.

douglas_schroeder June 04, 2009 10:17

Owner

Vx700, I appreciate the comments. The Whispers went "Bye Bye," back to Legacy Audio, as they are truly a wealthy man's speaker; beyond their cost they require six channels of amplification and three sets of cables. By the time one is finished it's a serious price tag. It's a speaker for those who can truly afford it; I'm very blessed I had several months with it. I have chosen what to give in offerings/charitable giving and what to spend on equipment, and that will not change no matter what equipment comes through the door. The Helix was a tough one to give up. It is the first piece of gear I really wanted which I had to say "no" to. If I bent my spending rules to acquire them I could have. However, I would have been spending far more on myself than I feel I should (I feel I would have been stealing from contributing to the family's needs/desires). It would have meant a great imbalance in the quality of equipment in the rig as well and would have taken me years to equalize it. In addition, once I worked through the logical multi-channel amps, if I would not have been able to secure triple amps and sets of cables for review it would have meant the speakers likely would sit idle for long stretches as they wouldn't be able to be a reference speaker for said review equipment. Finally, it would have left me no maneuvering for potential ownership of other amps/cables/sources, etc. So, as weird as it sounds, being a reviewer actually added complications to the decision. It all added up to a reluctant farewell. If I were merely an audiophile who had the means you can bet, after such an audition, I would own them now.

Maybe some unknown rich uncle will die, leaving me enough to buy the Helix. ;)

Don't worry, I didn't leave myself in too poor of shape. My consolation is found in the amazing Focus SE, which is no slouch; it has not failed to impress me regardless of what electronics I put on them. I wrote a short update to the Focus HD review on Dagogo.com, where I comment on the Focus SE version. I'm not sure when it will appear but you can watch for it.

I've got the gaming thing going with the X-Box in the HT. I may go to the PS3 soon, as it incorporates Blu Ray. (My sons are wearing out the PS2 in the family room). Yes, Halo etc. on 100" screen is a "Blast"!

douglas_schroeder March 01, 2009 22:05

Owner

System edited: Finished up with the Legacy Audio Helix Review; thought I'd show you what I suffered with for a few months. ;) Though they look way too big, the Helix sounded superb. After their departure I upgraded to the Legacy Focus SE version, seen in profile in the system pic. Pathos and Legacy - a very nice combo! No one guessed the obtusely shaped speakers; Canary Audio Zama's. Beautiful esoteric speakers!

douglas_schroeder February 25, 2009 22:11

Owner

I feel the Focus HD is very competent top to bottom. Especially with use of amps in the 500-1,000wpc range the bass is taut and extremely powerful. I can see where with some amps 50wpc or less, or Mid-Fi-ish surround receivers, or low power SET amps they might be considered less precise in the bass. But with proper power and a good source they are refined and clean in the low end.

Regarding the walls, they are a bit darker than a neutral shade of cream/beige. We did them with a faux finish over the slight knock down effect on the walls. It was a perfect choice; they look very rich and inviting. I didn't want an extremely dark look, just enough to not reflect much off the screen when using the projector.

douglas_schroeder December 03, 2008 14:39

Owner

Kiwi, it's looking like it will be closer to mid-year. I have been very deep into it with some high end gear for upcoming reviews. Once that is all taken care of, then it's on to the amps in question. Patience is a virtue. :)

douglas_schroeder November 26, 2008 17:44

Owner

Loc, There may be some improvement with the XLR, however the cables used will have almost as much influence. Changing the power cord will have almost as much influence. So, it's not a major problem if you use the RCA inputs on the Pathos.

Power Cords are very much like mixing your own drink - to taste. I have no experience with the PS Audio cables so I can't help there. If the PS Audio cables are inexpensive and you end up getting a second Pathos amp, then swapping them would likely make a big difference. I have done Tara Labs, MIT and Wire World reviews; you can read them for an idea of what might be a sound you are after and then try it.

douglas_schroeder November 19, 2008 14:04

Owner

Lamcam, I felt the sound of the Saturn was very good, except that I had several units with operational problems. I sold my Saturn because of it. I next reviewed the 840C and was very impressed by the sound and flexibility of the unit. I paired it with the Sonos Digital Music System, the review of which was posted to Dagogo.com this month.

I bought two of the Azur 840c units; one for the listening room and one for the office. Both are running with Sonos.
One 840C developed problems with the digital output, so it went back to Cambrdidge and was just returned two days ago. The issue was that the unit would not lock onto the digital signal from another cdp digital output. It also had defective digital output from its own DAC.

I will monitor the unit ongoing to see if it's resolved.

As for potential upgrades, If your Saturn performs flawlessly, I would urge you to consider adding a second Pathos Classic One MkII and run them Mono! It's among the most potent upgrades I have ever come across for the money. The result is stunning. It still is among the best amplification schemes I have ever come across. You would likely not be disappointed to go that route.

Make sure you put a good aftermarket power cord on them!

douglas_schroeder November 19, 2008 08:28

Owner

Mjcmt, Can't blame you for not reading all the posts. I find it too time consuming often to do so. For a very throrough description of the BBA, see my review on it at Dagogo.com

Kiwi, I don't want to lead you on in terms of the timing of the review. The amps just came in so it will be a while until the review appears, likely next year.

douglas_schroeder October 02, 2008 13:08

Owner

Kiwi, Sorry, I can't help you there.

douglas_schroeder September 14, 2008 22:31

Owner

System edited: Update on Pics; would like to have put up a pic of the Focus HD in the room, but too much undisclosed review gear in the room.

douglas_schroeder September 14, 2008 16:04

Owner

Lcherepkai, I do not want to give you a "guarntee" since I do not know your speakers, nor the other equipment. However, know this, the Pathi (two in bridged mode) are FAR more effective than a single unit. They become more powerful, with far better transient response in the bass. Also, better warmth and fullness in the bass. They have much better articulation than the stereo mode. They have much better stereo separation. They have better dynamics, better imaging, better virtually anything you wish to mention in terms of performance over the stereo mode.

Listening to two units is almost like moving to a different company's amp. It's that much improved. So much that I really do not care to listen to one unit in stereo anymore. And that's taking nothing away from the quality of the stereo mode; it's just that the bridged mode is so much better.

The stereo mode is a bit weak, at least on the original and MkII versions. The MkIII is improved in this regard, but still some might find them a bit underpowered for higher levels of listening. No problem with the MKIII in mono mode, however. I have used all manner of speakers with them and they are driven well by the Pathi, even 88dB 4 Ohm speakers.

So, if you are not trying to "wake the dead" with irrationally high listening levels which would strain most amps, then I would suggest the Pathi will be up to the task. AND, they are drop-dead gorgeous!

I have one reservation; you mention "...transparent and hi-rez" which makes me wonder if you are really a SS guy who is gung ho on detail at the cost of warmth. If you must have every final detail and precision (which can at times come at the cost of any warmth) then you may not want a tube integrated. However, I have found no great lack of detail in the Pathi. They are a wonderful blend of tube richness and detail. I feel they are extremely listenable and have had no fatigue even with longer listening sessions. I cannot say that with most SS gear as it usually starts getting to me as the highs sound "tough" on some music. I never have that issue with the Pathi.

I have a few audiophile friends in the area who have heard the Pathi and they are all quite impressed with its "musicality" and richness. Also, cables can make a huge difference in detail, so they must be addressed as well if you want a slight difference in detail.

I know it's nerve wracking trying to determine if a piece of gear will sound good to you, even though you've not heard it. I've tried that many times. You may be encouraged to know two things. One is the aftermath of the sale of the MkII units as I upgraded to MkIII. (I may have said this before, but the story is so good, it bears repeating!)
The man who bought them is from Maryland, and he was downsizing from Boulder separates. When he got the Pathi running he was very pleasantly surprised at how little they gave up to that extremely high end rig.
Encouragement #2 - I had never heard them either before buying. I spoke with Gianni B. at Pathos and asked him about the mono mode. He was modest and said he thought there would be improvement. What an understatement! There was BIG time improvement. So, if the concern is only over "heft" to drive speakers, worry not. The only thing you may run into is if you had serious power, ie. 250-500W per ch. now, then step down a bit to the 170wpc in 8 Ohms of the Pathi. If you're used to big power, then the Pathi might seem a bit (not a ton, as I've compared them to 1,000wpc JR equipment as well) less impactful. But, if you've been in that range, they'll sound fine in terms of heft.

Finally, you have the option of tube rolling if they are not as "bright" sounding as you would like. I rolled some different tubes in, maybe Siemens, but took them back out as I preferred the stock Sovtek. Maybe with different cables that would change. Tubes are about as cheap as they come for this amp, which is a bonus!

Ok, one last thought; I see you have had the likes of the Consonance Calaf, etc. If you want to jump up on power, then you're not going to do it by the Pathi, not likely. If you had plenty of power, almost too much available, then the Pathi will likely be fine as well. It all depends on how hard you want to drive your gear, and I'm not out to break the sound barrier. I don't want to lose any hearing from "live" levels and rediculous loudness. So, the Pathi are more than adequate. If you're looking to run those dual subs per speaker at insane levels, then I will not guarantee you'll be satisfied. The Pathi might be able to do so to your satisfaction, and I get plenty of loud out of them when I want, but only you know whether you need "gobs" of power to be happy.

douglas_schroeder September 13, 2008 13:09

Owner

System edited: Updated component listing.

douglas_schroeder September 11, 2008 13:26

Owner

Kiwi, thanks, and I wish you blessings in your search. If you're like me, the major effort is to not get "overly obsessed" about the gear, but to remember that it's for enjoyment! Gotta watch we don't have any typos, or else it becomes "Dark Hearse Special"! :) Last amp you'll ever need...

douglas_schroeder September 08, 2008 22:08

Owner

Kiwi, yes, the Rowland has the incredible power, and thus, has the sound stage thing down, along with the transient response. Yes, it leans to the cooler and analytical side, especially when compared with the Pathi.

However, cables alone, much less the source, can make a huge difference in how white (vs. golden)it sounds. It can be brought a good way toward warmth and fullness with the right attending equipment. One tube DAC that I'm currently using enriches the class D sound of the 501's amazingly. There is plenty of flexibility to maneuver with these amps. They will give the detail and power, and you can inject warmth and body to whatever degree at another point in the system, i.e. source, DAC, and to much lesser degree, cables with less bite. However, it seems class D does not yet have the inherent body of a tube amp.

You should probably give a listen to the 501's with a good tube pre in front. You would likely hear a totally different presentation, and you may have to adjust your conclusion.

OTOH, the Pathi are nautrally warm and inviting in a way that the 501's cannot match. However, they do not have the innate power to reach the same levels of sound stage expansion or transient response that the 501's have. It's an absolute trade off due to the designs; you're not going to get it all with either one. The Pathi provide much more tube power than usual for the dollar, and because they are sans an additional component (as would be the case in a separate pre/amp) and extra set of IC's they are tremendously clean sounding - a very "direct" from source sound.

Up until this week the Pathi were my "champs" in terms of overall listenability. Now they have a serious contender, a "dark horse" which I can't reveal yet. This new amp also has shockingly good sound with the Focus HD. I'll be writing about it for sure, but it's going to take a while before the dust settles and the new amp is announced.

So, do you sit and wait for several months until the next review is published? Maybe. But that amp also has limitations as well, which might not make it perfect for everyone. It's up to you, but an outstanding rig can be had with either the 501's or the Pathi.

That's the way it goes in audio. It's tough to proclaim an absolute "winner" as a person really can assemble gear with care and turn a myriad of options into outstanding systems. I can put together super-good rigs that I would love to listen to for hours with either the 501's, the Pathi or the new amps. I not only can, I have. I have said, using both of these amplification schemes, "Oh! That sounds Good!"

Having said that, if you want tube warmth as your highest ideal, then the Pathi would be the choice. If you want more definition with seemingly unlimited power, giving you tremendous scale and transient response, and super-tight bass, then the 501's are the ticket. Customer's choice.

Bottom line, I did not get rid of the Pathi when the Rowland 501's arrived. That says something good about the Classic Ones in mono mode.

The odd thing is that lately the Pathi have sat for weeks on end. NOT due to being usurped, but due to working with different equipment for review which necessitated their sitting idle. Now, however, the new amps are configured with the Focus HD's and the Pathi can be slipped back into the chain. I have not heard the Pathi in comparison to the new amp. But you can bet I will...

I do not want to build up the Pathi to such levels that people think there is nothing which could ever surpass them. And the day may come when I divest them (not in my immediate plans; working with multiples of amps the opportunity is increased that it could happen). Having said that, they are simply a wonderful, delightful set. They do give the person with a conservative budget a full helping of the tube amp high end. They may not be the "end all, be all" but they are excellent, and I think not many audiophiles would be disappointed by them.

Can't recall if I mentioned that the man who bought my set of MkII units previously had Boulder separates and was downsizing. He was elated at how little the Pathi gave up to the Boulder gear. I wasn't all that surprised. It seems the Pathos dealers don't even know what they have on their hands. The dealer in Colorado (where I bought my second MkII) who sells them regularly had never used them bridged. People at Pathos had never paid much attention to the mono function; I know, I discussed it with Gianni Borinato the designer. The dealers seemed to dismiss it. Virtually no one has used them this way. That's too bad, as they are completely UPscale when used mono, so much so that I don't care to listen to them anymore in stereo mode. It's possible that if the mono Classic One idea was pushed too hard by distributor and showrooms the sales of the higher end Pathos amps would suffer from cannibalization.

That is also likely the reason why the Classic One is such a unique product. Why aren't other manufacturers making integrateds which are switchable to mono? Likely because it would effect sales of separates. It certainly is NOT because a mono integrated would not sound good. Those few who have done it have been very pleased with the sound. (There was one guy in Australia who had the original Classic One; he said the sound was poor! Turned out his cdp had a much higher output voltage than the original integrated accepted. With the MkII verson that was corrected. Aside from that oddity, the results have been enthusiastic)

Your experiences are revealing the limitations and strengths of different amp technologies, as did mine.

douglas_schroeder September 08, 2008 07:26

Owner

Kiwi, I have reviewed both of them extensively on Dagogo.com, but in a nutshell, they are drastically different technologies, so they are not an "apples to apples" comparison.

The Focus HD is a more high end speaker, but as I said it is three times the price, so it had better be.

Characteristics of the LFT-8B:
Good low end for an 8" driver, but will sound like it "pops" with too much level if there is not enough wattage. With 1,000 watts from Jeff Rowland Monos the bass was excellent with very little popping effect. So, power matters to clean up the bass if you are driving levels higher with them.

Their mid/treble is gloriously open sounding; I feel it sounds faster/cleaner than the Magnepan 1.6. The upgrade to "B" version is very worthwhile as it lended a balance to the entire speaker, and I would recommend all owners do it. The LFT-8B is an excellent economical speaker.

The Focus HD is truly capable of playing with the "bigger boys" under $20k. It is actual full range (not ballpark) 20Hz-25kHz +/- 2dB, a very impressive spec for a $7K spaker. With twin 12" dynamic drivers the bass is much more effortless sounding than the LFT-8B (which should be expected). One can use them without subs. BTW, I did put subs on the LFT's and they sounded larger with the added low end.

The planar mid in the HDs also is a bonus. This gives it a sense of planar upper end, and the mix of speaker technology is done superbly well, as seamless as I've ever heard a hybrid sound.

The high end of the LFT is open but more diffused sounding. The treble of the HD is cleaner but more localized, as would be expected. However, I really like the neo-ribbon tweeter on the HD as it is very delicate sounding and responds well to cable changes.

Though the HD is a cabinet design I do not hear displeasing cabinet resonances or other anomalies which put me off.

In short, the Focus HD does nothing worse than the LFT-8B and many things better. Although, obviously, it cannot lay claim to the vast breadth of the planar pannel. Both are superb efforts at their price range and for their technology. A person will not be shortchanged with either one. Budget and preference for sound would determine which is best. I love both dynamic and planar sound. One may say that either is better than the other, but that would be shortchanging the speaker unfairly.

douglas_schroeder September 04, 2008 08:59

Owner

Kiwi, nice nice to hear from you! Things have changed a lot in the past couple of years. The pics are WAY out of date; my apologies. I know I should update them. Even my equipment list is lagging.

Over the months I have wanted to make comments regarding the Focus HD and Azur 840C, but they were under review. So, now that the reviews are done I can speak as an owner.

The ET's which are in my possession now are review speakers and I continue to use them for that purpose. (At my office I use a pair of older ET LFT-VI's, which I paired with a set of HSU STF-1 subs; space was a consideration or I would have gone larger on the subs. So I'm still very much enjoying the LFT experience!) The office system is actually getting respectable. I had paired the LFT-8B's with the Jeff Rowland 501 Monos; I have never heard those speakers sound more scintillating.

My most recent speaker purchase (all review equipment which is undisclosed not considered) is the Legacy Audio Focus HD, which I eagerly bought after the review. The Focus HD is in a different class than the LFT-8B in several respects (dynamic hybrid speaker, nearly a true full range speaker, also in different price class) so that should be noted.

Regarding the Pathi, they are still one of my favorite amp schemes. It is about as clean a signal path as one can get, and it sounds like it. If you consider them for the planars, try to get the MkIII version as it has more grunt than the MkII. However, if the LFT's are not over driven, not taken to "live" levels then you'll be ok with the MkII.

The Pathi sound superb with the Legacy Focus HD speakers, and the MkII version would work excellently. I just love the combination. The larger Legacy models (Helix, Whisper, Focus) have excellent sensitivity, so they can be driven quite easily by the Pathi. Off the top of my head, I believe the HD has 96dB sens., which is 1dB higher than the Tannoy Glenair I reviewed!

The Focus HD are impressive with the Jeff Rowland 501 Monos. I couldn't get enough of that power - 1,000wpc and the twin 12" woofers of the HD's! I really like both presentations with the Focus HD speakers. The Pathi are sweet and lush, the Rowland 501's are overwhelmingly powerful and vibrant.

I am regularly using the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C as my "affordable reference" player (also a fine transport for DACs under review). I also am working with higher end players in review, but can't talk about that now. I purchased two of the Azur 840C's, one for the listening room, and one for the office system. The Azur holds its own in systems on up to $75K. I recall one magazine reviewer saying it would not be out of place in a $100K rig. I agree, as I've used it in higher end rigs I'm assembling up to $75K and it does sound wonderful.

douglas_schroeder September 02, 2008 21:04

Owner

Cjfrbw, here's some background to offset your surprise/dismay...

Nothing against the Advent, but it was worthless (as it was when I checked eBay - two newer operational Advent units sit unloved at $70 - and as it will be in 15-20 years most likely), inoperative, and I was not about to put a penny into refurbishing a component which is already worth almost zilch and can't touch the performance of even the most modest of surround processors of today.

It came along with a batch of old gear from an estate. I had three systems operating already, and the vintage stuff was turned into a fourth system; I still use the Nikko separates I obtained in my garage system. There was also an older Sansui receiver, which sounded ok, but again couldn't compete with a Naim Nait 5i, which replaced it in my office. I did not euthanize the Sansui (I sold it) as it worked well and I knew it was a collectible.

If you had a useless Radio Shack receiver you might do the same as I did with the Advent; I still recall the exact looks of that receiver and I'd likely freak out if I saw a pic of it getting crushed. That was my first piece of stereo gear, and I'd love to have that model again. I'm normally not violent toward even broken gear (it's about the only piece of gear I have put even a scratch on), but I was in the mood for something dramatic.

I have lived around people who keep absolutely everything, even if it has no practical value (and most often little fiscal value either), and I aggressively resist that impulse. In fact, that's why I have not hunted down that Radio Shack receiver. Even audio gear is not sacred; if that's heresy, so be it.

The odds are very good that this is the only piece of gear that I ever have/ever will subject to mistreatment. But, I must say, after decades of handling CD's, cables, sources, and especially speakers with kid gloves, it WAS fun to do! But, I had an older set of tires ready for replacement on the car at the time, just in case Murphy's Law kicked in!

Mitch4t, thanks for the complement. Acoustically the room has exceeded my expectations, and they were high. The pics of the gear are woefully out of date, my apologies. I should post the pics of the Legacy Focus HD's, as I bought them. I also bought the Cambridge Audio Azur 840C - two, in fact - for my office as well as the listening room. My office system is getting very interesting as well (Cambridge Audio Azur 840C, Naim Nait 5i, Eminent Technology LFT-VI speakers (vintage!) and twin HSU STF-1 subs). Gives me my planar fix!

douglas_schroeder July 28, 2008 16:03

Owner

Update: My oh, my, it's been an exciting five months! Huge, sweeping changes in the system. The pics are now grossly inaccurate.

The Pathos Classic One MkIII integrateds in mono are still being used. I have added the Legacy Focus HD speakers (which I just reviewed on Dagogo.com) as a new reference speaker.

douglas_schroeder February 17, 2008 16:05

Owner

Update: I've transitioned to the Pathos Classic One MkIII's (in bridged mode) from the MkII's. Definitely worthwhile upgrade, as there is a substantive increase in power. While the MkII's handled the planars capably, the MkIII's handle them with ease. While the wpc ratings are similar, changes to the op amps etc. have resulted in a more robust amp.

douglas_schroeder October 20, 2007 12:36

Owner

Garry, thanks for the thoughts! The ancient Jews likened our moving into the future as a man walking backwards; perfect hindsight and absolute blindness to the future! So, with that, I'll say that you'll have to wait and see! I'm sure most observant folk saw that it was an Advent Soundspace that was destroyed, old, inoperative, and unrepairable from what I could tell. Likely the only component I ever have or will treat with contempt. Thought it'd be good for a laugh.

douglas_schroeder April 13, 2007 14:56

Owner

System edited: Took some doing, but I've added a "Personal Audio Star", quite the hot item. Had to use telescope to catch close up of Von Schweikert VR-4 SR MKII speakers. Case of road rage against inferior components; hope it won't hurt my reviewing record.

douglas_schroeder April 08, 2007 20:59

Owner

Chad, as a reviewer I'm choosing components within a certain price zone typically (occasionally I can wander). Hence, the reference is chosen according to my means and range of reviews. Many things change by necessity when reviewing.

douglas_schroeder April 05, 2007 18:01

Owner

My schedule does not allow me to go this year, but you can be sure I'll be keeping tabs on you...! ;)

FYI, I have decided that the VR-4 SR MKII's will be my new reference speakers, and I hope to have new pics up soon.

douglas_schroeder April 05, 2007 08:56

Owner

Chad, Thanks for the compliment; yes, I am enjoying reviewing, but it is more time/work than most realize. My goal is to keep it real and honest, and a bit entertaining. So, God AND YOU are watching?! That's serious pressure! ;)

douglas_schroeder April 02, 2007 13:47

Owner

System edited: Just finished review of Von Schweikert VR-4 SR MkII which will appear on Dagogo.com, I believe in April.

douglas_schroeder March 28, 2007 21:34

Owner

Sanwanlanman, and Midwest_Modem,
Greetings,
Wow, that's a mouthful of a moniker! So, I take it you're in San Francisco and working on networks? The ET's are excellent speakers at the price point. There are several options for pre/amps/integrateds with ET's. They are fairly inefficient, so an amp with more robust power will definitely get you more "jump" factor when listening to them. You might enjoy the nearly limitless "ooomph" of a class D amp with the right cdp. You should also try to have a listen to the new Rega players (Apollo and Saturn).

Midwest_Modem, you're timing is impeccable; you can watch for my Saturn review on Dagogo.com (sorry, I don't know the exact timing of when it will appear).

douglas_schroeder November 06, 2006 08:04

Owner

OOOPS! Something went wrong. I meant I moved to the SATURN cdp. My pic of it didn't seem to "take" online here either. I'll try again...

douglas_schroeder September 04, 2006 06:32

Owner

System edited: Recently moved to the Rega Apollo cdp, a very good move, I might add. If you heard and liked the Apollo, the Saturn will take your breath away! For those without budget constraints, this is a player you should go hear.

douglas_schroeder September 04, 2006 06:28

Owner

System edited: Wow! Been a busy, productive time in past six months for my HT! Added the Apollo cdp, went from a single Pathos Classic One MkII in stereo to dual units in bridged mode! WONDERFUL improvement! And now, a dream come true, flagship custom Chapman T-77 speakers handmade by my friend Stuart Jones of Chapman Audio Systems in Vashon, Washington! I put an extended review of them on audioasylum.com for all interested in these magnificent speakers. I would love to hear a showdown between the Vandersteen 5's and this setup with the T-77's and twin Vandy 2W subs! I have been trying MIT Magnum Shotgun 750 S3 speaker cables, but will switch back again to the Tice Audio cables to compare. I adored the sound of the Tice speaker cables in the system and will be anxious to hear what they do for the 77's! I cannot urge audiophiles moving on up in their price category to try the components I've assembled. The two channel system represents the pinnacle of what I've worked for in sound for over two decades. Finally, the dream is reality - every listening session is fantastic! THIS is what audio is supposed to be like! I must be doing something right, the Apollo and Pathos amp have each garnered several enthusiastic reviews by professional reviewers. And the speakers? Well, just read the review.

douglas_schroeder May 22, 2006 21:28

Owner

Gmoodl, Yes, there are times I now wish I had that pair of ET's back again, just to swap them in and out of the system. I can only imagine how they'd sound with my current amplification.

Opticaltee, "someday" can really happen! Three years ago if someone would have said to me that I would have my own dedicated room and that I would build it, I would have told them they were crazy. But, we moved, I faced my fears of never having worked in the trades, went at it...and there you see, anyone with determination CAN do it!

I would say, having a dedicated room CAN take a lot of the acoustic problems out. The room needs to be proper dimensions and built properly to give the best advantage for being more acoustically perfect.

One of the most helpful things for me was to get a subscription to "Home Theater Builder" magazine! Wonderful resource! It opened up hundreds of questions in my mind, which at times was burdensome to wade through in finalizing the room, but in the end, it moved me to truly design a great sounding room! I obtained as many back issues as I could. Every single issue had something critical in it to assist my project.

One of the most enjoyable aspects of the room was playing interior designer. I had fun selecting carpeting, paint, sconces, etc. Just adds to the gratification.

Stay tuned; I SOON will receive my custom Chapman T-7 speakers and will post new pics of them. For time being, I'm enjoying messing with a newly acquired vintage system with some Nikko gear and a gorgeous pair of Mission Argonaut speakers from about early 80's.
Soon I will post yet another system; I'm putting together a Naim Nait 5i along with the Chapman T-7's. I'm tempted to use the Mission speakers there instead and go for the "flat earth" sound.

douglas_schroeder April 30, 2006 21:09

Owner

System edited: Most recently added second Pathos Classic One MkII allowing me to bridge them to mono. Stunning improvement! I've posted review on Audio Asylum.

douglas_schroeder April 02, 2006 16:00

Owner

System edited: It's been a wonderful experience moving from the huge soundstage of the Stacked Eminent Technology speakers to the amazing imaging of the current rig! Now running the sweetest and most simple 2 chanel setup ever. I never dreamed a hybrid tube integrated w. 70wpc would outperform separates, but the Pathos is incredible! I love everything about this system! Every listening session is pure pleasure. The Apollo and the Pathos have launched the system into orbit! Very soon, the Chapman T-77's custom built by Stuart Jones will be here. I can't imagine how good this sytem will sound then! It's not recommended, but I took the Vandersteen crossovers out of the signal path. WOW! Unreal improvement! I don't care what anyone says, they're not going back in. I do not run my system at higher levels, so I'm not concerned about damage to them. This is not an endorsement for you to do same, but I'm shocked at how much better the low end is without the crossovers. I know R. Vandersteen didn't design them to run that way; I don't care. They're not going back in. I'll likely post a proper review of the Pathos Classic One MkII on the Asylum soon. Finally, the biggest headache has been swapping out several sets of spkr, IC, pwr cables. Entire system's worth compared head to head. I went through Audioquest, then Harmonic Technology, and now have settled for the moment on Tice TPT wires. I didn't even know they existed. It's NOS from about 5-7 years ago. I'm terribly happy with it. However, I did discover that the spare XLO power cord I had laying around brought just the right touch of detail to the 2 chanel system if used on the Apollo rather than another Tice power cord. A stunning difference in realism with the swapping out of one cord on the cdp! My resolution and detail (but without harshness of any kind) is so good that I can easily hear the difference between a change in one set of IC's or one power cord. I have dreamed of this sound for many years, and am blessed now to be enjoying it.

douglas_schroeder March 19, 2006 21:47

Owner

Wow, there's been a LOT of changes in the past six months! Now, I am running Tice Audio cables for power, IC and speakers. They are lovely in my current setup.
The most recent upgrade is highly significant; Rega Apollo cdp. OHMYGOODNESS!!!! THIS is a seriously fabulous cdp! Huge leap in reproduction on every level above the Rega Planet 2000 I had. No comparison. I put a review on Audio Assylum for interested persons. Here's the link:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/113988.html

Keep an eye on this player, it's very special!

douglas_schroeder January 26, 2006 10:31

Owner

Andy,
The Chapman speakers are excellent! The T-7 has an amazing amount of bottom end for a speaker of its size. I am having a custom pair of T-77's made for me by Stuart Jones, the owner of Chapman Audio Systems. He has a genuine passion for good audio. Currently he's testing my Harmonic Technology Pro-9 cables to see how they sound, and can take that into consideration in the manufacture of the T-77's.
Champman speakers are primo quality; the drivers are calibrated to +/- .5db; the crossover components are matched ; the Air core coil has +/- 1% tolerance, time aligned similar to Vandersteens (However, having owned Vandy 2CE's in two different systems, I much prefer the Chapman sound. I understand that Vandersteen also matches drivers, but I do not know to what point they match other components like caps and coils)...
In the end, all this perfectionist work on the speakers yields a stunning result. I am guessing that anyone who has heard them will concur.
I first heard the T-7 more than ten years ago, and I remembered its sound for more than a decade. Truly a work of art in electronics. The Eminent Technology LFT-8A's are wonderful planars, and the Chapman T-7's are wonderful box speakers. Both give the buyer WAY more than expected for the price point. I have really struggled with selling my last set of E.T.'s since they are so good. But, in order to pursue my quest for the absolute best imaging I can afford, I'm letting go of them. In a word, the E.T's are awesome at soundstage, and the T-7's are awesome at imaging.

I used to say that if someone could combine the best qualities of the Vandersteen 2CE and the Magnepan 1.6 (both of which I've owned) it would make a great speaker. Well, personally in my systems, I feel that the ET-8 and the Chapman T-7 are clearly superior products to the aforementioned speakers. If someone could combine the best attributes of the ET and chapman, WOW! That would be a mind-blowing speaker for the price level! I am hoping that the T-77 approaches that goal.

I can't say enough about men like Bruce Thigpen at E.T. and Stuart Jones at Chapman! They make quality products and are genuinely personable businessmen!

douglas_schroeder November 21, 2005 07:20

Owner

System edited: System update: Changed electronics to PS Audio for two channel. Speakers are updated to Chapman Audio T-7's.

douglas_schroeder November 15, 2005 20:58

Owner

System Update: Radical Transformation under way. I mean everything concerning the two channel rig is going to change, except possibly the cabling. Preamp, amp, speakers all moving in completely opposite direction.
I spent months assembling the "stacked Eminent Technology LFT-8A system. It has been terrific. I have never heard soundstage done like this. You sit down to an event, not just some music.
In the meantime, having procured a set of Chapman T-7 speakers, a favorite from over ten years ago, I have become friends with Stuart Jones, the owner. I thought the company was defunct; not so. He's involved in custom installs, but is going to make me a pair of his flagship model, the T-77's.
No more need for 8 channels of amplification, four sets of speaker/interconnect cables, two pair of speakers, etc. These all are being divested. Instead, I'm going to see how good utterly simple two channel can be. I'm reducing to one set of speakers, a single two channel amp, left and right speaker/interconnect cables, and stereo preamp (which, ironically is swinging back again to solid state as opposed to tube).
Will I prefer this? THAT is the difficult question to answer at this point. I have considered keeping a set of Eminents, however in order to do this switch properly at the same level of investment as I had in the system, I need to plow the same $ into it. So, everyting with two channel is going.
This is an entire "sea change" for me. I have only done this one other time in 20 years. It's exciting, but also a bit unnerving, since I do passionately love the sound I have now. However, I want to see what the other side is like, the side that says "Get the best streamlined system you can.."

I expect that the greatest feature will be awesome imaging. I know I will lose enormously on soundstage. No way a box speaker is going to produce the hugeness of the stacked Eminents. But therein lies the question. Which, in the end will I choose as most important to me? Will I find my holy grail of audio in imaging? With this sytem I have found half of it - soundstage. Now, I will focus on the other half - imaging. Hopefully, I won't lose too much soundstage. If I do, you may see me rebuilding the very system I'm disassembling. Insane? Yes, but I'm a compulsive tweaker anyway, so this is, frankly, as much fun to me as the actual listening sessions!
More to come, including pics.

douglas_schroeder October 22, 2005 05:50

Owner

Edit: I was going to say, "...I would not recommend matching ss amps of differing power, even if from same company." It worked, and was fun in the time I searched for an identical amp, but you should strive to obtain a perfect pair, or else you're results will not be as good as can be obtained.

douglas_schroeder July 29, 2005 11:15

Owner

System edited: Finally secured the second Outlaw 755 amp! Now system is in perfect symmetry. I didn't realize how much coherence was missing by not running identical amps! It was great before, now it is mind-melting! Last trip to St. Louis, I listened to a stack of T&A components (German; stands for Technology & Application)along with the new Martin Logans at $10k/pr. So, about a $40-50K setup, oh, and that's not counting the fancy, extremely high end cables. It's got nothing on my stacked Eminents. I was exceptionally pleased to think, "Man, my system sounds better than this, and at a fraction of the price!" I especially noticed that I have much more clarity, and the treble is much clearer than was on the $10k Logans. The use of not just related amps, but the actual identical amp has made the stacked Eminents blend into one. They sound now not just like two extremely close speakers, or one with rows of drivers. They now sound like one speaker with incredibly big drivers/soundstage. I play some music that if I didn't know was in two chanel, I'd bet I had the surround on! They are throwing such a wide soundstage and with such depth that the ENTIRE front of my room is full of their sound! There is no sweet spot, everywhere on the sofa is great. It's amazing. By upping the power on the bass it has gotten even clearer/cleaner, so that now the midrange is more easily heard. The bass was strong before, but now I realize it was too strong, covering up some of the nuances of the midrange. Now that the bass is more controlled and deeper, yet cleaner, the midrange dances. Having done this experiment, I would definitely not recommend, unless you have no choice or you intentionally want to combine tube amp with ss amp. If you are running all ss I would say the differences even between amps of same family are great enough to merit holding out for two identical amps. Also, because of speaker cable lengths and issues with using two amps of differing power, I had used four chanels of the 755 to biamp left/right mid/highs. I used four chanels of the 750 to biamp the bass of left/right. Now, with perfect synchronicity, the system is in perfect mirror configuration, all signals are sent to dedicated left/right amps, and then on to cables and l/r speakers. I'm sure this has a beneficial effect, but I'm not sure to what degree. All I know is, it sounds terrific!

douglas_schroeder July 29, 2005 11:10

Owner

Thanks for your responses, guys!
Jayctoy, I have an extensive Christian music collection; I listen at the church office too (I have a more humble setup there as well). Most of my music with lyrics/Christian artists are at office where I am most of day. At night I listen to smooth jazz/instrumental. I have very little music with lyrics, and the ones I do have are carefully screened.

Atsmusic, please don't envy my system! :) There's always someone with more toys currently. I know an individual who owns a Saleen S7 supercar. Great guy, but he's got a totally different life than mine. He's had other heartaches and successes. Many envy the car he has without knowing his life story. (As an aside, the longest drive he's ever taken in the car was about 6 hours, and literally had to stop on the hour to stretch, because the cockpit/seats are SO uncomfortable that you must escape to recover from driving it for any length of time). Exceptionally fast, and exceptionally uncomfortable. People don't realize that when they gawk at it. There's usually an interesting story behind exceptional things.

I have no doubt you will achieve your goal! My HT really was aided by twenty plus years of conservative fiscal living (always giving sacrificially to Lord), and lot's of discipline. Then the "opportunity" came with the change in house. Ten years of hard work paying down mortgage led to that. So, after about 25 years in audio mania, I'm experiencing a huge blessing because I dared to do one thing - step out of my comfort zone and try building a room. It was one of most rewarding things I've ever done! I hope you can have a similar experience someday!

Etran, so, I've got you curious about 'stacked' Eminents? I do things differrent than a lot of people. Many would never try something like the "stacked" Eminents. But, man, it's the real deal. The switch to Eminents, stacking them, and biamping them put me into the high end more than any other change I've done to my system in 20 years. These things make produce sound like I have a $50,000 system, even though I'm running extremely modest components.
Circumstances have allowed me to have the capability to vary cables, wattages on amps (165/200), tweeter settings, and sub settings. All of these tweakable variables have allowed me to get a stunning result in sound. I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I'm not rushing to find it like I always was in prior days.

douglas_schroeder July 10, 2005 12:59

Owner

After extended listening, I'm convinced that what I initially thought were potentially "double" sounds coming from the speakers is actually a more natural holographic reproduction of the source.
Solo voice and instrument is dead on for clarity- no sense whatsoever of duplicity of signal, so i can only assume that it is so with any source.

douglas_schroeder June 10, 2005 16:49

Owner

Tazmanian devils are welcome, evil spirits are not!
Seriously, I do screen music and movies for content. Years ago I went exclusively to instrumental music to get away from raunchy lyrics. After years, I found I was missing the sound of the human voice, so I've slowly added vocals. There is something very pleasing about a system that can reproduce the human voice in a palpable/believable way.

douglas_schroeder April 28, 2005 22:17

Owner

System edited: Greetings, thought I'd post some impressions of the experiment I conducted with my main speakers. I had pair of Eminent Technology LFT-8's. Fabulous, economical speaker. I'd say a forerunner in the cost/performance race at a price of well under $2k. I had read a review of them in which reviewer tried adding a second pair. He likened the sound to the Infinity RSV speakers sytem (at $60,000 in the 80's). That got my attention. So, I did it, bought the second set of speakers and am running them in parallel (the tweeter drivers are center of each pair, surrounded by the midrange, to tighten up the high end). My system: Rega Planet 2000 cd Rogue Magnum 66 pre (configured with tape output internally switched to second pair of line outs) Audioquest RCA "Y" adapters Four pair Harmonic Technology interconnects, running into 8 channels of Outlaw Audio amps (Outlaw 755 at 200wpc feeding mid/highs on all speakers, and Outlaw 750 at 165wpc feeding lows on all speakers) Of course, the four Eminent Tech LFT-8's 2 Vandersteen 2W subs I have the higher wattage amp feeding mid/highs because it improved the clairity of the soundstage, and I can supplement the lows witht the Vandersteen subs. Impressions: POWER! Effortless bass- along with the twin Vandersteen subs, I now am running ten 8" bass drivers. No sweat with any low bass etc. More 3/D or "holographic" sounding. With the wider sound stage and power one perceives a more live sound. Cymbals seem to be easier to hear decaying, the tiniest taps are audible clearly. Subtle nuances shifting from left to right speaker etc. are easier to catch. Rock Music ROCKS! It's like a live concert! Thunderous bass, the voice sounds like you're listening to the monitors and you can visualize the guy at the mic... There is no fatigue from the high end; I used to have Mangepan 1.6QR's and after while listening with the volume up,I'd have to turn it down, just so much shrillness my ears can take. The Eminents are much more forgiving to the ears, and doubling them does not wreck that quality. There is still a "gravity" even at low listening levels. It sounds full and the detail remains even when playing softly. Watched the clip from Gone in 60 seconds where Nick Cage gets reacquainted with "Elanore". WOA! Overwhelming presence in movies... To purists, this may not be the way to go. At times I think I can hear slight nuances of two signals being reproduced, but when I hear a solo instrument, or voice, it sounds dead on like one speaker. Shortcomings in my equipment may be partly to blame; one set of speaker cables is two foot longer than the other and only 11awg vs. shorter ones being 9awg. One pair of speakers is about ten years older, the other recently built. The Outlaw amps are not identical. The interconnects are all same brand but not same model. Only one set of speakers on "Sound Anchor" stands - the second set of stands is on the way. The listening room is obviously small for such an attempt. It is likely more room tuning is needed (I'm using four Auralex propannels behind the speakers in the corners). I have not used "set up" discs or analysis to tune the system. If such limitations due to budget were overcome/corrected, this setup might move from being exciting to being astounding. I'm going to have some audiophile friends with better ears than me come and give their impressions. I may post them on my virtual system. I know one thing, I will probably always biamp now that I have tried it. Likewise, would be hard to give up the ultra wide sound stage and visceral presence of the twin speakers now that I've got it. Bigger is definitely better in some respects. I can certainly see how huge speakers with vast arrays of drivers are very enticing. I'm trying to simulate the same experience with a modest outlay greenbacks. As I said before, this project may not be the straightest line to a flawless signal/listening experience, but if nothing else, I'm getting a ton of fun from the project. I am enjoying attempting to create the poor man's "super-speaker."

douglas_schroeder April 21, 2005 18:26

Owner

Update: Two main speakers is good? Four must be better! I'm now attempting to run four LFT-8's in tandem! I will double everything...cables, amps, etc. Will end up with 8 amps driving biwired pairs of Eminent Technology LFT-8's.
I switched from the Audio Research LS-9 pre to the Rogue Audio 66 Magnum pre, since it has dual main outs (selectable internally). The power is already intoxicating; it's hard to conceive what it will be like when the system is effectively doubled! Stay tuned...

douglas_schroeder April 07, 2005 21:55

Owner

Yes, mtheime,
going into a fabric store is an interesting social experiment. Some women will definitely give you the "you're not wanted here" look. Others treat you like a novelty, wondering if you're some kind of closet quilter...but they all have this knowing look that says, "You're way out of your element."

The Black is perfect for screen frame. It absorbs the excess light from projection the best. The screen makers seem to go with black as a default option. As far as the whites onscreen, at this point, I don't fret too much about the picture. I care more about the sound than anything else. There are so many settings on these doggone projectors, you can get it to look white if you tweak it enough.

Yes, the rail and spline method is about the only way I can think of to efficiently and perfectly stretch the screen material. Just make sure you set the rail back about a half inch, so that the stretched material is beyond the inner edge of the frame. Otherwise, you may see imperfections.

You'll love the results, I think.

douglas_schroeder April 04, 2005 21:48

Owner

Greetings, Mthieme,

I saw some info online, but basically, I did my own thing with the screen.

1"x3" frame, cut to size w. mitered cuts.
Spray paint it flat black
Cover it using "fuzzy" but stretchable black fabric.
Use double sided carpet tape to hold the fabric onto the wood, and cover the seam in the back with a second piece of carpet tape. This was by far the hardest part; took patience and hand strength to stretch material and keep it perfectly smooth while adhering to carpet tape. But with patience it goes well enough.
Assemble "frame" of screen with flat right angle brakets on backside
Go to Home Depot and get "Rail and Spline" Get the plastic rail, which is relatively flat and can be cut to length w. hack saw.
Attach to back side ontop of rail.
Screen material is "black out" material (used for curtains to block out sunlight) and can be gotten up to 54" wide. So, max size screen you can do is about 100" Maybe a bit more, but not much.
Observe women thinking "he's nuts" when you inform them you want black out material to build Home Theater screen...
Use smooth side of black out material as screen surface!
(ask for a cardboard tube roll to keep your piece of screen on clean and wrinkle free until attatched to screen!)
Lay screen ontop of rail and position (make sure smooth side is facing front of screen frame!)
Use spline roller device, or pizza cutter to push spline into rail channel.
Do not overstrech material; leave a bit of slack to allow last side to be inserted.
Screen can be attatched to wall any # of ways; I used sizable brackets ontop behind, and used drywall screws inserted through tiny slits in fabric in bottom to keep screen snug to wall.

Took two nights at slow pace to build. $90, but I hit the annual half price material sale by accident! :) So, your cost might be $115

Hope this helps. No one who has ever entered into my HT, and there have been a few!, has guessed the screen is homemade. It's that easy and effective.

Before committing to the project, buy a one or two yard piece of black out material, call screen companies and ask for samples of various gray/white screen materials. Project onto them. You MAY conclude that the extra approx. 10% of sheen etc. of specialty materials is worth the $1,000 or more. I sure didn't think so.

Hope this helps. It was among the best of DIY projects I've ever done.

The room is a testament to fact that if you're willing to learn, you can accomplish incredible things!

douglas_schroeder March 29, 2005 14:20

Owner

System edited: Greetings, In process of lightening up the extra speakers I've accumulated! Will keep the two pair of Eminent Technology LFT 8's for use together as mains in HT. Eventually hope to passively biamp the four of them with 8 channels at 200wpc. Serious sound!

douglas_schroeder March 26, 2005 21:29

Owner

System edited: System Update; added new pics, changed cd, pre

douglas_schroeder February 22, 2005 16:30

Owner

System edited: Update: I have moved to an Audio Research LS-9 preamp, and have removed the Cal Audio from the front end, now using only the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000's analogue outputs into the AR preamp. I'm getting a little more definition and softness in the sound with this arrangement.

douglas_schroeder January 04, 2005 10:28

Owner

An Update: I have changed out my entire system from Audioquest DBS cables to Harmonic Technology cables. Superior in every way.

douglas_schroeder November 20, 2004 16:05

Owner

Dave,

Ha, I liked your quote! Yeah, the room didn't just come together without some effort (I would suggest, similar to this world). I spent many an evening just standing and thinking out how to proceed with soundproofing, lights, wiring, etc. I'm VERY glad I didn't just have someone put it together in a week. I got tons of help from Home Theater Builder Magazine.
Someone once said building your own HT is a labor of love. I concur. But, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
One thing is shocking, though; the price tag. You need a pretty good pile of money prior to beginning, and or plenty of home equity, and or very good cash flow to do a room like this without getting into financial trouble (at least cash flow trouble). But with proper planning financially and otherwise, great dreams can happen and not cause relation ship problems (infer "wife acceptance factor").
In fact, I will brag on my wonderful wife. She said the words every male audiophile longs to hear, "I don't care what you do or how much you spend..." Wow! What a woman!!!!
Granted, 12 years of marriage and my demonstrating sound fiscal policy had led her to that conclusion. We worked hard and practiced contentment for over a decade. i.e. using the same furniture donated to me as a single man for the 12 years (yes, we now have nice new furniture). So, in a way, the HT is an outgrowth of much larger efforts...we were only able to afford the newer home, in which the HT resides, after working to pay off the old one...

But, this is an audio forum. Most people are in my category, able to spend some on audio but not gobs of dollars. My HT is proof you can "do your dream".
I still get a big grin on my face when I'm playing Xbox or listening to a great tune in the room. Worth it all!

A last thought on the room. Tuning a room is a giant advantage to the sound quality. In a living room or space which tuning cannot be done, the sound quality will suffer most likely. I'm just getting into room tuning, but can see immediately the advatages of investing in sound pannels, etc. It truly elevates the listening experience.

Blessings,
Doug

douglas_schroeder October 20, 2004 07:45

Description

Room Details

Components Toggle details

Aspen Acoustics Grand Aspen Speaker

Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition

PureAudioProject Trio15 PAP Horn 1

PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn 1 Landscape Orientation

PureAudioProject Quintet15 Horn1

King Sound King III

Aspen Acoustics Capella Speaker

Kings Audio Kingsound King Tower

Perlisten D212s Subwoofers

Exogal Comet DAC and Ion PowerDAC

Eastern Electric Minimax DSD DAC Supreme

Discrete Opamps Staccato, Burson, Sonic Imagery, Sparkos Lab

Iconoclast Cables and BAV Power Cords Iconoclast/Belden

Owned/Reviewed Spkr Cables Various

Outlaw 950 Surround Processor

Rotel RB-976

Magnepan MGM W

Legacy Audio Silver Screen

Tice Audio Solo/Solo High Current

Furutech GTX-D (G)

Plateau AV 42

Panasonic PTL-500U

Auralex Propannel 2x4'

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Doug's Audio Den

Description

Room Details

Components Toggle details

Aspen Acoustics Grand Aspen Speaker

Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition

PureAudioProject Trio15 PAP Horn 1

PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn 1 Landscape Orientation

PureAudioProject Quintet15 Horn1

King Sound King III

Aspen Acoustics Capella Speaker

Kings Audio Kingsound King Tower

Perlisten D212s Subwoofers

Exogal Comet DAC and Ion PowerDAC

Eastern Electric Minimax DSD DAC Supreme

Discrete Opamps Staccato, Burson, Sonic Imagery, Sparkos Lab

Iconoclast Cables and BAV Power Cords Iconoclast/Belden

Owned/Reviewed Spkr Cables Various

Outlaw 950 Surround Processor

Rotel RB-976

Magnepan MGM W

Legacy Audio Silver Screen

Tice Audio Solo/Solo High Current

Furutech GTX-D (G)

Plateau AV 42

Panasonic PTL-500U

Auralex Propannel 2x4'

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