Zephyr, Those who say the Whisper comes closer to a panel speaker are quite right. The primary reason is due to the use of planar elements for the mid/high drivers. The Focus also uses the same 4" planar mid driver and 1" Neo-ribbon tweeter. Also, fairly obviously, since the Whisper is an open baffle design, the lack of cabinet colorations will make it more akin to a panel speaker.

Even though it uses a cabinet, I find many things about the sound of the Focus SE's upper/top end reminiscent of other panel speakers. There have been times that the mid/upper end sound between the Focus SE and the King have been "cut from the same cloth", with surprisingly similar elements. There are distinctions between the drivers, but enough similarities that one can definitely tell they are both "planar sound" as opposed to a dynamic driver complement.

There was a thread not long ago asking panel speaker lovers what their alternative dynamic speaker was. For me, much of the time it's my "other" panel, the hybrid Legacy.

douglas_schroeder May 15, 2010 20:01

Doug: As always, it is great to hear back from you. Some have said the Legacy Whisper series (especially the latest) come as close to a panel speaker in imaging and presentation as one can get from a non-panel speaker. Do you have any thoughts in this topic?

zephyr24069 May 13, 2010 12:06

Zephyr, yes, I keep getting a bit more out of the Focus SE's every time I set them up. I'm always trying new cables with different amps. I really enjoy the openness of planar mid and ribbon tweeters; gives the speaker a great "vastness" to the soundstage. I seem to gravitate toward the panel sound, and I'm having a good 'ol time with the SE and the King. I've had more satisfaction in audio since these have been here than ever before. Owning a good dynamic speaker and panel speaker is a totally different ball game as an audiophile. I strongly suggest that those who never can find contentment in any one speaker assess whether they are torn between technologies. If so, then if possible they should pursue two sets of speakers appropriate to their income, and they will likely have far more enjoyment of the hobby.

douglas_schroeder May 05, 2010 23:42

Frankpiet, I'm sorry I cannot (yet; who knows what I will review in upcoming months?) give you a direct assessment of the CD-5 as compared to these others. If you have read my review on Dagogo.com you will see that I rate the CD-5 exceptionally high in comparison to the CD-2.

I have heard these other players in several different systems at shows. I can only say that I felt the quality of the Redbook performance in systems with the CD-5 was competitive with them. It's difficult to say definitively, as the components and speakers were all different. I would have loved to hear the CD-5 in any number of rigs at the shows.

You may also want to consider the new Ayon Skylla DAC, as you could try whatever transport you wish with it. That might be a nice solution. However, I find the tube pre function of the CD-5 to be quite good and the elimination of the preamp with proper cabling to an amp is extremely desirable. I am spending a lot of time running the player direct into various amps.

For me the Gain feature is the big advantage with the CD-5. I spend a fair bit of time on that in the article. There was a guy whom I've been talking with. He upgraded from the CD-2 to the CD-5. He had all kinds of concerns about, "will it be that much better?" I kept telling him Yes! He got it and found out for himself it's in a different league than the CD-2. (You know Ayon's coming out with CD-2S; I think it's showing in Munich)

If you do the CD-5 I strongly encourage serious experimentation with cables, because the CD-5 is quite responsive to it. You can tune the rig beautifully with the right cables (to your ears).

Hope this helps.

douglas_schroeder May 05, 2010 23:32

Doug: Right you are....the pair that were delivered to me were the pair that were broken in and showed at Axpona so they had some time on them. Over the past month they have broken in further and from the sound of it fully. They are in a word, 'amazing'!

zephyr24069 May 05, 2010 17:38

Douglas: have you ever compared the CD-5 with other high-calibre players such as Wadia 381, Audio Aero Prestige SE or the latest Emm Labs CDSA SE ?
I was using Ayon gear quite extensively in the past (amps, speakers and cd-players) and never was 100% satisfied with them: The CD-5 seems to be a very tempting offer so I would be interested in your comments especially regarding other high-end players (I´m no using Wadia 381 along with Ayre Series 7 CD-player in a secondary system).

frankpiet May 05, 2010 15:36

Zephyr, I'm elated for you that you are enthralled by the SE! It's an exciting speaker to hear. You will get them dialed in even better over time, so the enjoyment has just begun. :)

douglas_schroeder March 19, 2010 01:26

Doug....thanks for the update. On my side, Legacy Focus SEs arrived this morning! This pair is broken in by Legacy and was the pair demo'ed at Axpona. All I can say after the first couple of hours is "WOW"!!!!! They are that much "more" in every category where the Focus HDs already excel. Early indications are that these are (for my ears and preferences) in a class all by themselves over anything I've ever heard over the years let alone at a price point that is made for the real world. Bill D. and Legacy have outdone themselves yet again. You were SO right! :-) !!!

zephyr24069 March 18, 2010 20:12

System edited: I finally get to brag about the odd front end and amplification I just recently discovered. I have been enthralled by the combo of the Ayon CD-5 player/preamp and the Peachtree Audio Nova integrated/DAC. These two with the Kingsound King speakers are simply sensational. The Gain switch on the CD-5 does exactly as I stated in my review; it pumps up the performance of lowly amps to herculean levels. The 80 or so Watt Nova sounds like a 400wpc amp with the King speakers. It's a mental disconnect to see this tiny integrated getting voluminous, powerful sound out of the King. Three weeks on listening to it and I'm still shaking my head from wonder. I wrote about it in an unsolicited article, an Audio Blast, just published today on Dagogo.com This hobby is so amazing, there is a surprise around every corner! People wonder if we've hit the end of the road for Hifi? Not even close; we've got an unlimited amount of growth technologically and personally. I see no end in sight. As nano-tech gets applied in ever wider circles I think audio also will be influenced broadly. The Kingsound King is already the beneficiary of nano-tech on the coating of the driver membranes. The results are quite impressive. The systems of the future will make our current ones seem wretched in comparison.

douglas_schroeder March 17, 2010 04:12

Well... Ayon also has the Skylla DAC, so maybe that's an option.

douglas_schroeder March 14, 2010 18:38

Doug...thanks! I just read the full review of the CD-5; it certainly has your attention and admiration. I'll have to try to hear one somewhere within driving distance. I would love to find an equal to what I have that would result in a simplified setup. The CD-5 however does not do SACD and while I could live with not playing the few DVD-As that I've collected, the vast number of quality SACDs on my shelves have me 'waiting' to find a player (perhaps Ayon will put one out) that combines the CD-5s attributes and capabilities with killer SACD playback as well.

Focus SEs should be here by this coming Friday...I'm looking forward to this particular change in the system VERY much. Have a great weekend!

zephyr24069 March 14, 2010 13:06

Zephyr, I was remiss in not mentioning that I reviewed the CD-5; that's how it became my reference. The article should cover the basic questions you may have. I have been experimenting beyond the scope of the system in the article, and have found some wonderful new combinations of gear, which will be discussed in an article to be published mid-month. I'm having a ton of fun with this equipment!

The King is rising to the top in terms of audio show reports. I had said in my previous show reports that it was not being shown in its best light. That is beginning to change with the Florida show; the speaker was shown this time with the VAC Royal power supply and Cardas cabling, so it's no surprise to me that it was mentioned as one of best sounds of Axpona (I believe by Stereophile online). However, I'm finding ways with the Ayon CD-5 to extract even more extreme performance from it, in very unexpected ways.

I have spent considerable time also with the Legacy Focus SE and the CD-5; this too, is a killer combo. Legacy and Ayon sounds very good together, and this is why I continue to pair them in my own use. The bottom line is the CD-5 is a different creature than most cdp's. Consequently it can shift the playing field (pardon the pun!) in very decisive ways. I'll have an example of that in an unexpectedly different rig I've written about to be published mid-month, just a few days away.

douglas_schroeder March 14, 2010 04:29

Doug,...thanks for updating your system! I noticed that Legacy also made extensive use of the Ayon unit at Axpona. Can you tell us more about this unit's sound, construction, etc...as you get to know it further? Thanks!

zephyr24069 March 13, 2010 12:16

System edited: It's been an exciting time lately! I have added a pic of my new reference source, the Ayon CD-5 player/preamp. It is quite unique, with a powerful feature in the Gain switch. This allows it to be used with low powered amps and less efficient speakers. The effect is like taking a sub-100wpc amp and turning it into a 300wpc monster. It's a "game changer" and has opened up new vistas in equipment pairing for system building. It is breaking new ground for sources. I will have a very surprising, fun new amplification addition, which I will show in a few days.

douglas_schroeder March 12, 2010 13:23

Tim, I can't honestly tell you how many discreet systems I've built in the past four years alone. Dozens literally. If you see a two channel component, I've probably had it in no less than three or four rigs. Some components I'll have in a dozen rigs or more, such as the speakers.

Building systems is as exciting for me as listening. Every system can be improved, and the results of constructing a system can be very surprising. One of the greatest of the many joys of audio is that there is no ceiling on what's possible. I've blown through at least 5 perceived "performance ceilings" since being in this room. There's always a new system which can best what's currently in use. Technolgical advance assures it. That's part of the excitement and joy of this hobby for me.

I see you've got the big KEF's; I was this close (hold fingers very tightly) to approaching them for a review. I bet they sound very good. :)

douglas_schroeder February 24, 2010 01:21

love youre setup but how many changes have you done as far as systems are concern? I got lost from each picture ,anyway good luck very lovely

timbales February 22, 2010 20:35

Doug,...thank you as always for your very detailed feedback and answers to my questions. I am looking forward to this very much! Be well/Happy Listening!

zephyr24069 February 19, 2010 16:28

Zephyr, I think you're going to be very pleased with the decision to upgrade. The Focus SE is an incredible speaker. I have likened it to a poor man's Wilson Maxx 3, a speaker I very much have enjoyed at the shows. If anything my admiration for the design has grown over time.

Following review I now have made the Ayon CD-5 my reference Redbook player. This past week I set up one of my standard favorite systems; CD-5 direct to the Pathos Classic One MKIII integrateds as monoblocks, and the Focus SE speakers. The Ayon player is quite special and draws out a fantastic amount of high end performance from the Pathi and Focus SE. The CD-5's Gain feature is remarkable in that it allows amps like the Pathos to really shine; lower powered amps are given a big boost in performance from this player. The Gain settings on the player are so powerful that I have not yet had an amp which I use the High setting. With the Kingsound King ESL I use the Low setting, even though it has a difficult impedance curve.

Ayon and Legacy have been showing together at RMAF and CES. I continue to hear very good things from them in my room. I also am quite pleased with the performance of the CD-5 with the King speakers. I have had audiophile friends over who have heard both the Focus SE and the King in the same day. I ask them which would they choose if they could have only one. They have a difficult time deciding, as both are impressive sounding. I have felt that they are commensurate in terms of quality of sound, only differing technologies.
If the SE is good enough to cause people to struggle between it and the King, that says very good things about the Focus SE.

I think you'll be very happy about the upgrade to the SE. You should not expect an entirely "other" sound to the speaker, as it employs the same drivers. You should hear very quickly the advantage of having the drivers matched to +/- .25 dB. Also the more delicate high end with the silver wiring on the tweeter. I really enjoyed the HD version, but I've not pined for it at all since moving to the SE. I also haven't felt the need for subwoofers with the prodigious output of the SE. You'll also notice a cleaner bottom end with the SE. I think you'll be very happy, as the SE is a more refined speaker and gets you a fair bit closer to the summit of performance in big dynamic speakers.

douglas_schroeder February 19, 2010 14:06

Good evening Doug! I thought I'd check in and see how you are enjoying the Focus SEs after all this additional time. By mid-March I should have switched my HDs for a set of SEs and I am extremely excited and looking forward to the transition. Thanks to Bill and Doug at Legacy for making this possible!

zephyr24069 February 19, 2010 00:15

You better believe that they do! Great to hear about your latest adventures!

zephyr24069 November 04, 2009 01:02

Zephyr, Nice to hear from you; I see you've got your Focus HD's sitting pretty! I'll bet they sound pretty fantastic as well. :) I was on the new Legacy site only briefly.

I enjoy both the Focus SE and the King. Though they are of differing technologies, I find them equally satisfying. Owning radically different speakers has put salve on an audiophile itch I've had for a very long time. I have been pleased with how good the Pathi sound on both speakers, even though they have such different characteristics.

douglas_schroeder November 03, 2009 22:36

Doug...have you checked out the new Legacy Audio user forum on their website? They've reworked their website and put in a great forum mechanism where I'm sure your feedback and advice to users would be appreciated...

zephyr24069 November 03, 2009 15:57

Mitch, I have not had the Whispers in my room; the pics are of the Helix, the flagship model from Legacy Audio. The Helix is a ton of speaker (felt like a ton moving them down the stairs!) and was a phenomenal speaker to reivew. I could not afford the price of the speakers, three sets of cables, and triple the amplification costs, so they had to be returned. In addition, having an active speaker with triple the needs for cables and amplification would be difficult for use in reviewing, as many manufacturers/distributors would balk at sending out three of the required item (I know, I tried). The Helix would likely sit much of the time rather than be enjoyed. For those reasons I had to pass on it. It certainly was not an issue of sound or desire to own it. If I were an audiophile with the means and the lack of constraints on daily usage, they would never have left the room.

I elected to obtain the Focus SE, as at the time it had better low end than the Whisper. Now, however, at RMAF just days ago, I heard the improved Whisper with upgraded bass drivers. The shallow low end has been extended and now it strikes my ear as a "little Helix", quite formidable.

douglas_schroeder October 11, 2009 12:44

.
Looks like you had Legacy Whispers before. How do the Whispers differ from the Focus?
.

mitch4t October 10, 2009 01:44

Mitch, a very good question, as one might assume they were mounted "normally", but they are not. The mid-surrounds are mounted in the traditional position of the speaker wire leads coming out from the bottom of the speakers and into the receptacles built there for the feed to the surrounds.

Conversely, the rear MGMW's are inverted, because I wanted to mount them closer to the ceiling, and did not want unsightly receptacles in the middle of the wall. Therefore, I flipped the speakers (which of course, has no effect on the sound), and ran the leads from the speakers into receptacles placed near the room's ceiling. Worked beautifully! I'm very happy with the result.

The surround speakers are "hinged" thus allowing them to be swiveled to any position I determine. If I want a more diffused spatial effect, I place them edge on, or directly perpendicular to the wall. If I want a more visceral, solid effect with improved bass/presence I tuck them closer to the wall, which is where I now have them. In addition to allowing for this change in sound quality, the swiveling feature allows for more generous options in placement of the listening chair and HT seating.

The one thing which must be watched if one flips the MGMW is that the "cotter pin" holding them in their bracket is not held fast permanently. If one moves them back and forth, the pin can work loose - remember, this is supposed to be the top pin, held in by gravity. I do not move them much at all, and the pin stays put. If the pin were to fall out from moving about the speaker could potentially fall. I found the pin to stay put well, and I've had them in place for four years with no slippage of the pin. This is simply a "be forewarned" disclaimer. One could certainly put a bit of blue tack or similar on the head of the pin to hold it in place if it slips easily. Or, if one is paranoid, mount the speaker upright.

I did not put much $ into the HT portion of the room, as I listen to music the vast majority of the time; I see a movie in the room about once very six weeks. Some might consider that a waste of the room, however it was built for high end two channel and it's used constantly for that purpose. I am very happy with the MGMW's in their assigned role as surrounds. However, I am also thrilled to have moved to the Kingsound Kings for main panel speakers. They were not displayed terribly well at this year's RMAF; they sound far better when bi-wired and with an upgraded power supply. I am using Kevin Hayes' "Royal Power Supply", as I have dubbed it, from VAC. I used to be partial to the magnetic planar sound, but in the past five years it seems the technology of ESL speakers has improved to the point that my allegiance is shifting.

douglas_schroeder October 08, 2009 16:07