Description

THE ROOM BEHIND THE RACING LIBRARY

When I retired in 2000 I had nothing to do and lot s of time to do it in. I thought that music was interesting and that I’d try getting a really good system and seeing if I enjoyed listening to music. I bought a series of NAD and Onkyo receivers and amps and a pair of Dunlavy SCIV. The sound was much better than I’d heard in a system and I thought this was great. I bought hundreds of cd, listened to the masters and decided I really liked music, most music. I still don’t really understand atonal or people yelling at each other. I used to think rap was what people did on doors and tables. I’d like to keep my ignorance in place on that one.

Then one evening I was having dinner at my usual restaurant hangout and after drinking a bottle of wine with a man who lived a few doors down from the restaurant, he invited me to listen to his music system. I was stunned. He had a Levinson Amp (331) with Teal speakers and Meridian cd and preamp with silver cables.WOW! I was in love. I’d never imagined that sound from a machine could be like that. I do owe Tony a thank you, for he showed me the light. A switch truly went on for me that night. Thank you.

After about ten minutes I realized that my ears hurt. I knew it was too bright, but ZAP!

I wanted to hear that clarity, that detail and I wanted to hear it for more than ten minutes without my ears hurting.

So, out went the receivers (actually I gave them to my three children) and in came Levinson gear. Since, I’ve been through ten or so amps and a few speakers and a few cables, cd players and turntables.

I’ve learned a lot of what works and what’s smoke. In wine, everything you need to know about it is in the glass you’re drinking, right now. Nope, you don’t need to know the grape picker’s name, nor the vintner, nor the name of the town, plot or mix of fruit.

You just need to know what’s in your glass. TODAY. I suppose by now you’ve figured out that I’ve tried a few glasses of wine. Yup. I stopped guessing how many bottles I’ve participated in after the 50,000 mark. No, that wasn’t yesterday. The benefit I’ve found of getting old is that you can’t remember when you stopped remembering.

I’ve come to see audio in exactly the same light as wine. I’m interested in what works, I can hear and I can feel. Once it takes an explanation to decide if it’s there, it’s not. If it feels like the music is wrong, lifeless, brittle, bright or skewed, toss the gear that caused it.

Around 2003 I bit the bullet and flipped for the design and engineering of a room by Rives Audio. It cost me the rebuild of our home. I could not find a single contractor willing to take on the room project. They clearly were so nervous about the details that they would not do it. On August 25, 2004 the room was nearly finished and the equipment was placed in it to hear what money can buy.

It’s pretty damn good!

It’s truly the best of everything I’ve heard in equipment and design. I grant those others with similar situations that there’s may be better rooms and sound, but I haven’t been to visit them and can’t say from experience.

What stands out to me in and from my room is that it feels small. It is actually 24’7” feet long and 15’2” feed wide where the speakers are located. The ceiling runs from 9’1” to 11’6” at the peak. The walls are not parallel, nor is the ceiling with the floor. And it does feel small. I believe it a combination of the oversize chair on a platform along with the monster truck sized speakers. They are 7’6” tall and 30” deep. When I have the equipment along side the chair, there isn’t much room to get past. I think I’m going to make a change in the seating. There goes my retirement fund.

The technical side of the room is Von Schweikert VR11's, Two DarTZeel stereo amps tri-wired, EMM Labs DCC2,Emm Labs CDSD Jena Labs interconnects and speaker wires, Jena Labs with a separate electrical panel fed from the top of the main panel and a separate HVAC system with acoustical dampening. The room is a floating system by Kinetics and what you see is in fact floating on a separate floor four inches below the current floor. The walls were built on the floating floor producing substantial isolation from the rest of the house. The rooms below are treated as well. There is a lot of sheetrock hanging on our walls. Waaay too much.

Having the room designed by Rives produced a set of plans which my licensed architect reviewed and then added support for. We now have two steel beams and three wood beams supporting the floor below the floor.

Pertusson’s corollary to Murphy’s Law raised it’s ugly head and true to it, “No job is so simple that it can’t be done wrong”. In spite of excellent design, engineering and effort, neither the construction manager nor those at Rives Audio ever asked each other if the plans they were each talking about were the same. They weren’t. Rives revised the plans and the contractor did not have them. Only months into the project when it became obvious that there were differences while on conference calls, did I learn that I wouldn’t be having front bass traps and that the window was offset. The first question that should be asked between designer and contractor is, what version plans do you have?

Issues arose during construction including isolating the steel column’s and room below the audio room sonically from the audio room. One is my children’s living room and the other is the boiler room. Each has loud distracting noises in it. We used a hanging isolated ceiling in the living room to keep the psycho music and video from being heard upstairs. That works well. The boiler needs more isolation and we will build a room within the boiler room to isolate it from the HVAC for the audio room.

There are two prices to pay for huge speakers. One is the obvious lot’sa money. The other is the speakers weigh in around 1000 pounds each, come in three shipping crates and need a couple of power lifters to install. Yes, call the gym first, before ordering to insure the availability of help. Our room is in the rear of the house which puts it ten feet above the driveway with no paved smooth walk to the rear. Problem! This problem needs to be addressed. It took five hours to install the speakers between bringing the six crates to the deck and actually hoisting them in place. The bookcase you see in the pictures is the actual door to the room. It is not a very wide opening and presents problems to bring in large objects. The speaker were tuned by Albert Von Schweikert and Kevin Malmgren. They measured the room and tuned and placed them in one night. Speaker placement is not critical, but position combined with seating position produces a variety of hall images.

I still am working on my vinyl setup and there are a few small details left in the room to do.

If you’re crazy enough about audio and have the willingness and ability to make it happen, I recommend taking the plunge into extreme audio. It’s a constant amazement that such beauty can be reproduced, for me (and you too).

Bill E.

Lakefrontroad
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Components Toggle details

    • DarTZeel NHB-108
    100WPC Very Solid State of the Art
    • EMT 948
    1970 Pro Table with built in line stage
    • Dynavector XV-1S
    on order
    • SRA Ohio Classe XL Iso Base
    (2) Amp Stands
    • Jena Labs 240 Volt 5 Wire (2)
    3' used with a Tenor Amp
    • Jena Labs 240 Volt 7 Wire (3)
    Used with the Audio Aero Capitole II, Aesthetix Power Supplies (2)

Comments 199

Owner
Nelson,

What an unexpected pleasure. I'm glad you're pleased.

The VS-11's need to wait a little longer until the system and the room are truly complete before I'll try to describe them accurately.

I need to change outlets, grounds, trap the ceiling between the speakers and my listening position, install the inner window, change inner doors to one with sound dampening, and get the DarTZeel preamp and GP Monaco stand.

They're all in sight and it's coming closer.

Best wishes,

Bill

lakefrontroad

Bill, the system is looking better and...cleaner. How about writing a review on the Von Schweikert VR 11 since only a handful can afford it and I have yet to see one? Seriously, I don't think Albert will be sending reviewers this monstrous nightingale. The Khorus are still singing beautifully and I don't think they miss you at all. Best Regards - Nelson.

dalton

Owner
System edited: This time the Tom Evans Groove is mine. I purchased it to replace the one that was lent to me.

lakefrontroad

Owner
System edited: System description changed

lakefrontroad

Owner
Ha, ha, ha.

Thanks for the laugh.

lakefrontroad

Very nice system and I like the secret Batman cave sort of theme you got going, but man those seats are butt ugly!

drw50

Bill,

Not much experence here, but all of my equipment is on the ground, mostly between my speakers. I should really update my own pictures as I have the VZN 100 OTL monoblocks from Joule Electra (somewhat in the same vein as your old Tenors).
I agree with you from a previous post somewhere that, in essence, the room can make or break a system. I noticed the most improvement when I moved my audio equipment to a dedicated room in the basement.
By the way, when I feel that I am listening critically too much and not enjoying the music as much as I should, I put on a 20 year old R&R tape and play it through a 20 year old tapedeck. There is no point critically listening to that. This sort of "flushes" out the tension and I start again with a clean slate.

david_berry

Owner
Thank you for looking.

I moved the equipment from the front of the room in the sound field to the back of the room. I was awaiting the return of my 26' Pathfinder interconnects, which returned yesterday.

It's really good to have the front of the room empty again.
The room felt small with so much floor area taken up by equpment. It's rather open, frankly more open sounding than I expectd. I believe it may have to do with getting the eqipment out of the sound field. Expecially a sound field capable of such bass vibration so close by.

Another possiblilty is that the Pathfinders have never been used much, and virtually not at all during the last two years.

I'd appreciate your experience in the changes you've heard, if similar with removing equipment from the front of the room to the back.

Bill

lakefrontroad

Absolutely beautiful! Thank you for sharing your pictures.

david_berry

Owner
System edited: Just a picture change.

lakefrontroad

Owner
System edited: The Groove goes tomorrow and the room is painted. No the psycho doesn't hear new acoustics. It's the wrong color, but it's a substantial reduction in distraction from the white walls. Someday, when a decorator type who knows color comes along and tells me what the right shade is, I'll get it. Next step is get the DarTZeel preamp and finish the electronics. I pulled apart the return air box and found that the contractor had put in panels of acoutical material in order to dampen the noise and only succeeded in creating air noise in addition to the machine noise and the boiler noise. Now it's at least one less set of frequencies.

lakefrontroad

Owner
You know, for a feller who asks me if I'm going to be home this weekend, I can't figure out why? Tim, you haven't called again.

It probably will be easier to email me privately in the future if you want to know my schedule.

Now for everybody else, but Tim; you're all invited over for lunch and to listen on Saturday. Ssssh! I don't want Tim to hear about this.

The room is clearing out. Time for the GPA Monaco 5 tier and the DarTZeel. Then there's no equipment left on the floor. Finally getting cleaned up.

Vinyl is powerful, dynamic but not finished. It lacks the real blackness of a great table and phonostage. This too shall pass.

Having slowed down the fan for the HVAC system, the cold air no longer dumps in the room and it's much more comfortable to be there. I have been speaking with my HVAC guy and he believes I should change the system for a two speed compressor 1 ton/ 2 tons and a variable speed fan. This should reduce capacity on the low end and maintain capacity on the high end.

The entire system is going to be enclosed in a sound reducing enclosure to dampen and hopefully eliminate the boiler noise.

lakefrontroad

Glad I haven't made it down there yet :o)

Don has expressed some interest in joining us next time, for what ever that's worth. I'll call you at some point this weekend.

tireguy

Owner
I moved my platform and seat 20" forward today. Yes, it took three 20 year olds and a broom handle. No, I didn't use the broom handle on the 20 year olds. They lifted the front of the platform, slid the handle underneath rolled the 800 lbs of platform forward.

This seating position puts the listener in the music with enough width of separation of the speakers to widen the soundstage to much wider than the room. The perceived volume level has risen and I have much listening and tweeking to do.

I'm going to get out the analyzer and see how much resettin the speakers need.

lakefrontroad

Owner
I have been fiddling again. I removed the Zoethecus four tier stand and replaced it with my two SRA amp stands from the Tenors. Well, there's no doubt left that the SRA's do something. Most of the floor thump is gone when I walk by the turntable. I put the CDSD on the counter by the window and the Groove and DCC2 on one SRA and the turntable on the other SRA.

It's visually a lot easier for me.

The next step is to get a DarTZeel pre-amp and bring all the front end equipment to the back of the room.

lakefrontroad

Owner
I know this is shocking, but it's spelled Bari as in the pizza oven. Oh yeah, there's an Italian port named after her. I'm home, call me.

lakefrontroad

I should have seen that one coming, when are you available? Is that better, and don't give me any line about how Beri will be upset with me asking that :o)

tireguy

Owner
I've never charged to see friends.

Rarely do I charge guests.

lakefrontroad

Sooooo, when are you free? ;)

tireguy

Owner
I have been listening more tonight and each time I hear the same music I am accostomed to hearing I find the music more detailed and louder at the same volume setting. The panels are reducing the noise floor from the air returns. Also, the absorbtion panels set in the windows at the primary reflection points has shut down the bass reflection and increased clarity. The change is really dramatic.

Can't wait for my friends to visit.

lakefrontroad

Owner
I started all over again, again today.

I began by measuring the tonearm height from the deck. The manual recommends 35mm and it was about 30mm. I raised it and that improved the size of the center image. Then I lowered the tracking force to 2.40 grams and the size of everything seems about right. The instruments are distinct, clear, focused and the voices are the same.

I made up panels for the sides of my window, each 47" high by 24" wide. I want to kill the primary reflection off the window until I have the interior bay window made.

I measure the volume level of the return air and depending on whether the boiler downstairs is on and whether the rooms own air handler is on, I get up to 60 db of sound below 100 hertz. So, I made up panels to go in front of the return air which is what you see in the front of the room and it knocks the sound down dramatically into to 40 db levels.

I then set up the PAA3 analyzer in my chair at head height along with the computer. I set the analyzer to medium response and flat program and began to move the speakers around with pink noise on while watching the walls and the computer screen. Yes, I can actually move them with little force. They're on wheels and move fairly easily for 1000 lb. monsters.

I was told to turn off all the boost in the bass, and mid highs and highs. Then turn off one channel and start to find a position for the speaker in which the midrange is flat. I find that when the speakers are very wide, they produce the flatest response. I then began upping the ranges until I got the best I could.

I believe that I need front corner bass busting for the lowest frequencies of bass. I also believe that my listening position which is 150" from each tweeter needs to move forward towards the 109" the tweeters are apart from each other and from the front wall. I believe this is the primary problem for me to fix.

Unfortunately, the platform my chair is on weighs about 800 lbs and we're not sure we can move it.

Will all engineers contact me with ideas.

Bill

lakefrontroad

Owner
I went away for a few days and having returned the phono stage is quieter with more detailed full bass.

It's great to have vinyl.

lakefrontroad

Congratulations, Bill! Great progress that sounds very satisfying for you. Glad you vinyl is working it's magic again.
.

rushton

Owner
The cable arrived to bypass the phonostage of the EMT. I am using a Tom Evans Groove. It's a joy to hear vinyl the way I remember it.

The gain is so much higher than with the internal card.
Previously I was running the EMM DCC2 at 70-95 on the volume scale of 1-99. Above 78 there was an audible hum which got louder along with the hiss up to the max.

With the new stage there is a slight hiss above 62, but I can now play in the 20-40 range. The noise floor is down and the detail is up.

I can now hear that my cartridge set up is lousy. I have great bass and a small center image. I believe I need to change height and weight.

Help from the initiated is appreciated.

This is a great beginning.

lakefrontroad

Owner
Tim,

I don't even know anyone named Uncle Sam.

lakefrontroad

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